Driver's licence (LPR): IMPORTANT INFO

[Sylvia23]

Hi,

Here is a story of interest to anybody legally here
who want to renew his/her DL.

I just got my PR approved, and wanted to renew my
driver's licence to have a longer validity date (I will have to
travel abroad for an extended period, and my DL will
expire before I come back).

Since I could not find information on the web if I can renew my
DL even if it is not expired, I sent an e-mail to the dept. of
motor vehicles, throught their web site. Big mistiake.

My e-mail to them was:

Hi,
Have been here on a H1B visa.
Got a driver's license with limited validity.
I became permanent resident of the US as of March, 2005. I wish to renew my driver's licence, so the change get's known at DMV and I have a DL with normal validity.
Let me know if I can go to a DL office to do the change.
Thank you in advance.

Their response:

Thank you for your recent inquiry.

Your driving privilege was cancelled, effective June 20, 2003, for failure to present documentation from the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service showing your current legal immigrant status. It will be necessary that you present these documents before the cancellation can be removed from your driver history record. You may contact the Document Validation Unit at (850) 488-2637 or (850) 488-2189 for assistance.

We hope this information will assist you.



For the record, I did renew my DL in December 2004 because
of an address change....
I took an appointment at the local DL office at that time,
because I did not want to wait for hours. Luckily, so I have proof.

Have been here legally, and driving (of course), since 2001.
In addition, my husband is a US citizen (he will be happy to learn
about the problem this evening !).

So, tomorrow I will go at my local DL office, and try to fix this mess,
THEIR (DMV) MESS.

It is really unbelievable what we, legal people in the US, have to go
through, for eveything, every day. We are treated like crooks !
Try to do it the honest way, and you will be f#.
Well, will this psychological harassment ever stop ?!?! ,
Not even when you are LPR ?
Ridiculous, unefficient bureaucracy, nothing else
to expect. Honest people get it all, it seems.
We welcome you to the US as a LPR, yeah, right !

Bottom line: do not try to e-mail or make any request to the
department of motor vehicles: they will f# U up, if they can.

I will post here my follow-up experience at the DL office.

What a welcoming country for hard-working LEGAL immigrants !

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Sylvia23

What a welcoming country for hard-working LEGAL immigrants !

Welcome to America. You obviously are new to this country. Over the years, after you become a citizen, you will discover that the DMV is the most even-handed, non-discriminatory agency in government. They are so imcompetent that they screw up everyone, regardless of immigration and citizenship status.

Since you renewed the license in 2004, you should be fine. Don't worry.

[Sylvia23]

TheRealCanadian,

I appreciate your kind words and humor.

Here is my experience at the DL office this morning.

After a 1h wait, they took my GC and old DL, took my
picture, and... gave me a temporary DL valid 30 days
saying that I will get my new DL in the mail within 30 days.
Great. That's Florida. Welcome. I've been driving since 2001,
have never been out of status, hard working, no traffic offence,
no credit card depth...
It's truly ridiculous to be treated that way, and I do not
see an end to it.

So,
"Over the years, after you become a citizen, " ? are you kidding ?
It's not going to happen anymore. They can put my new DL in their
b#, I will be gone. I'm leaving. Start to pack today, and my flight is
booked for Monday. Will do science for another country that
respects people who contribute. I'm coming from western Europe,
did not come here for money or better life.
Had hoped that after the GC things will change, but I've had plain
enough to be discriminated. Today was the droplet, cup was already full.
Bye everyone.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Sylvia23

"Over the years, after you become a citizen, " ? are you kidding ?It's not going to happen anymore. They can put my new DL in their
b#, I will be gone. I'm leaving.

You miss my point. There is an old adage that says "never assume malice when things can be explained by incompetence."

The DMV is generally screwed up and disorganized, which is why you got that letter. You didn't encounter discrimination, you encountered incompetence - which is why it won't go away when you become a citizen. It's the same incompetence that native-born Americans deal with every day.

Were government offices so efficient and well-organized in your home country?

[Sylvia23]

I encountered discrimination at the
DL office. Everyone else in the office
was USC, they all got their DL right away.
I got a temporary one, valid 30 days, and I am
a LPR. They could have checked out right away,
through the web. Instead, they discriminate.
Has nothing to do with ethnicity, it has to
do with immigration. Again, again, and again.
Never ends....

"Were government offices so efficient and well-organized in your home country?"
Yes, in my home country things are well organized.
Some times too much, it's also true.
There, you will never got lies from govt. officials.
They would get fired on the spot.
I got many lies here. You cannot trust a quantum bit
of anything. It's just prosecution and paranoia.
I worked a decade for a govt. institution (research) in my home
country, had also to deal with own immigration rules when we had
scientists visiting for extended period of time. I helped
them through our immigration system, and I can tell you
immigrants there are treated much much better. They are happy.
Waiting time for a work permit was typically 1 month, and
if it took a little bit longer the immigration official calls and
apologizes. Just an example. We do not ask so much,
we just want to feel we are treated like human beings
and without discrimination.
I did not know how system was, here, truly regret it. Could
have saved the experience and would still have my dreams
alive. I know it can be different, and it's not just incompetence
or the size of the country that matters.
It's the wild west here, and the targets are the immigrants. What I
experienced today is just a tiny sample of every day's life for
immigrants.
What this govt. does is not helping homeland security much, it's mainly
targeting the wrong people and using money that would be needed
elsewhere.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Sylvia23

They could have checked out right away, through the web.

And how could they do that?

[Sylvia23]

"And how could they do that?"

Like we do:
Log on BCIS web site and put in
the I-485 application number which is written:
1. on the GC, 2. on the pp w. I-551 stamp and/or 3. on the I-797D form....
They can even choose.
Takes one minute to check, and we can teach them how to do it,
if they need training. We've a lot...

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Sylvia23

Takes one minute to check, and we can teach them how to do it, if they need training. We've a lot...

The USCIS web site is absolutely NOT an authoritative source of information about anyone's immigration status.

It says my I-485 is still pending.

[Sylvia23]

"The USCIS web site is absolutely NOT an authoritative source of information about anyone's immigration status."

It should be.
Otherwise, what is the use/purpose of such web site ?
Bad customer service ? Misleading information ?

But you got the point.

Posted on the web or not, the informations govt. agencies
collect and how they are processed are not reliable.
Therefore, one govt. agency cannot trust the other, and cannot even
trust own informations/web.
Therefore each agency starts over and over same checking
of people and ask for new paperwork. This opens big loopholes
for the "bad" guys, for sure, and we, honest people, pay the bill.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Sylvia23

It should be. Otherwise, what is the use/purpose of such web site ?Bad customer service ? Misleading information ?

The purpose of the USCIS site is for case tracking. That's all USCIS claims it's for - at no point do they ever make the claim that it can be used to verify someone's immigration status, because it never provides that information.

You plug in a petition number, and it (usually) tells you the status of the petition. However, it's (I believe) just a copy of the CLAIMS database, nothing more.

Here's a question - if you have an H1 or TN petition extension approved, does that mean you are legally in the country? Not necessarily - the worker petition may have been extended, but you didn't get a new I-94 with the approval. The web site won't tell you that.

Some people, like Canadian TN and dependent status holders, get only an I-94 when they enter the country. They never exist in the CLAIMS database, or within any DOS visa database. How do you handle those situations?

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but the solution isn't as easy as you think, nor is the problem as bad as you make it out to be. Hassles at the DMV are as much a part of the American experience as traffic jams, credit card debt and Mom & apple pie.

[Sylvia23]

Reality is that the system is broken.

People who immigrate here legally are harassed
in neverending procedures, paperwork and fees,
for "homeland security purposes" while
three million people cross the border illegally.
(and I think Lou should be fired, nevertheless)

But, one can find excuses for almost
everything, right ?

Concerning "damaging" information, or information
collected without knowlege of the people: it's
ongoing. Patriot (act, of course).

That's the reality.

[Sylvia23]

****,

Lou is the guy on cnn news who slams immigrants
every eve from 9PM to 10PM. This kind of TV harm all
immigrants, because most Americans do not make the difference
between legal and illegal "aliens" (feels like coming from another
planet, no ?). I got it once more when I was waiting in the DL office
this morning, and listening to the dissussions held by
other people, US citizens. They are not to blame. Neither are
the people working at the DL office. No need to give them
hard time, folks: they have a low pay, cannot change things,
and have to follow the same s# rules.

May be you are right:
Becoming a US citizen allows to change things, or at least
to hope we will be able to do so some day. Meanwhile,
our best bet is informing others, so they can make their choice
knowing what's coming up.

Meanwhile I found on the dhmw FL web site that it is standard
procedure in this state to issue a temporary 30-days driving permit
to permanent residents who renew their DL BEFORE it has expired.
I just wonder, why they would issue DLs directly, without temporary
licence, when u go there with an expired DL ....
Isn't it unlawfull to drive with expired DL ??? Just to go
to the office would be illegal... ?!

"Because of all this BS, the US is losing the advantage in high-tech."
Absolutely right. Know it very well, believe me.
It becomes scary to be "too" successful, you wonder which consequences
it will have that will further restrict your freedom.

"Foreign students are going to be required to get a license to operate such "dangerous" lab equipment as GPSes.... Last I checked, my Garmin GPS was manufactured in Taiwan..."

It's ongoing. Know well about foreign students issues.
When they are hired in research labs, advisors have
to fill out a form about the research they will do once in the US,
and DHS officials (who have no clue about the subject) check out
if any word of the title or summary fits "sensitive" key words they
have on a list. If any word "matches": red flag, and they deny
entry. Avoiding "bad" words became national sport, meanwhile.
Writing they will clean the floor and restrooms is OK: they
will get their visa.

In past years, restrictions and visa delays for foreign students
led to a general drop in enrollment of foreign students at US
Univeristies. There are a few interesting articles and studies
that can be found on the web on this subject. Everybody complained.
While hard time is given to foreign students, the US is selling IBM
high-tech and our security/communications overseas.
Is it good ? Do I miss the point ?

And btw, I am also in the field of GPS, and also other gismos
(worse). Would have given you the chance to see them labelled
"made in teh USA", some day, for a change.
So, why bother people ?
As a young scientist in my home country, it was great.
Now it's no fun.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by ****

When future historians look back at the early 21st century, they may find that this was the time the US started to decline. Empires don't last, and there are patterns of empire rise and decline that repeat throughout history...

Let's not get melodramatic. They said the same thing about the US in the mid-1970s. The beautiful thing about America is the optimism and believe it or not pragmatism and common sense of its citizens.

They may venture from one extreme to another but they eventually wake up and ignore the extremists who have sold them down the garden path. This too shall pass.

[Sylvia23]

TheRealCanadian,

"They may venture from one extreme to another but they eventually wake up and ignore the extremists who have sold them down the garden path. This too shall pass."

Unfortunately, we have 3 more years to go along this path.
America may well wake up from today's right wing policies
having also lost technological advance and world economical leadership.

"The beautiful thing about America is the optimism and believe it or not pragmatism and common sense of its citizens."

Sure you are right. But fear is such a powerfull tool to manipulate them !
Excessive nationalism/pride is another one. We know it from WWII.
BTW, I wonder when we, immigrants, will get our yellow star ....
(oooouuups, DHS could hear me).

****,

I banned Fox news from my TV channel list during the
elections compaign, so forgive my ignorance.

"I know a PhD student from China who has a single-entry visa. The prime conference in his field, software engineering, is in Shanghai next year, and he can't go because he would need to get a new visa to come back, and with all the security checks, that could take months."

Yes. Many scientists did stop travel, and when you do not attend
conferences,nor keep up with your buddies oversears, you do not
keep up with the field, cannot bring new informations back, and at
the end it is detrimental to the scientific development of the USA.
Not to mention that psychological distress caused by years of separation
from loved ones does not help creativity, and for sure it kills motivation.

Foreign scientists, from "some" countries, are not allowed to publish their
research results in professional journals. Wouldn't it be better to let them publish, so we would know at least what they are doing ?
Preventing them from publishing will not prevent them to develop their skills
and to progress in their field.

The USA has more to loose than to win with such policies, for sure. That's
why professional organizations are fighting such laws.