Can one be still deported if he commit a crime right after becoming a citizenship?

[AmericanWannabe]

Especially when becoming a citizenship is one overt act of the crime
such as
(1) the culplrit decide to becoem a citizen because in case he get caught,
he face less serious consequences since no deportation is possible
(2) citizenship is required to carry out the illegal act for example,
he need to become a police to do the crime (say, an inside job),
and citizenship is required for becoing a policeman.

I think at least on one grounds, he can be deported.
At the time of becoing citizens, applicant are
asked about reasosn. Such a person can
not state real reasons as listed above. So
he must lie and thus commit a fraud

[niladri30]

Finally!
A real question-answer forum!

[bb_5555]

there is nothing in the law that says anything about when one becomes citizen right away then it would be easier to take away citizenship.

here is a list of things that can have your citizenship revoked.

http://travel.state.gov/law/loss.html

even if you commit a crime while a police officer I don't think that will get your citizenship taken away.

The only things that can do it are acts of treason, voting in a foreign election, and working for a foreign government.

[stonewall]

Not an option at all to hope to commit a serious crime and get deported (and remain free elsewhere) - a jail time or worse is guaranteed - i.e. a person commits a serious crime, a murder etc. and hopes they will deport him/her for a fraud since he/she lied about the intent when getting employment as a policemen? No way. A fraud does not weigh the same as murder etc., and they can prosecute a culprit for the crime that weighs more or both crimes. I am sure that such a person will have to spend time in jail, period. Even if you are not a US citizen and commit a crime you are going to sit in US jail. Watch "Law and Order"!

(QUOTE=AmericanWannabe]Especially when becoming a citizenship is one overt act of the crime
such as
(1) the culplrit decide to becoem a citizen because in case he get caught,
he face less serious consequences since no deportation is possible
(2) citizenship is required to carry out the illegal act for example,
he need to become a police to do the crime (say, an inside job),
and citizenship is required for becoing a policeman.

I think at least on one grounds, he can be deported.
At the time of becoing citizens, applicant are
asked about reasosn. Such a person can
not state real reasons as listed above. So
he must lie and thus commit a fraud[/QUOTE]

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by stonewall

Not an option at all to hope to commit a serious crime and get deported (and remain free elsewhere) - a jail time or worse is guaranteed

Punishment for some crime may be just a slap in the wrist
but are still deportable. For example, many of drug offenses
may not lead to any jail terms but CIS regard such offense
very seriously. So one may be addicted to drug use
and by becoming a citizen, one may think "benefits"
of using drug may be worth the risk if deportation
is not impossible.

Many perfectly legal things for citizens may be
deportable offense to aliens. For example,
prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada
but aliens involved are to be deported.

[bb_5555]

it's a matter of what country will take responsibility for this person.

That is why INS does a very thorough background check because once that person is granted citizenship then that person becomes our responsibility.

[pv1976]

If you commit a crime after becoming citizen, you are treated as any other citizen criminals. You would be subjected to 100% US criminal court laws and at the same time you'll have all rights of a citizen like...access to an attorney and defending yourselves in US court from a citizen's angle.

[pv1976]

Originally Posted by AmericanWannabe

Punishment for some crime may be just a slap in the wrist
but are still deportable. For example, many of drug offenses
may not lead to any jail terms but CIS regard such offense
very seriously. So one may be addicted to drug use
and by becoming a citizen, one may think "benefits"
of using drug may be worth the risk if deportation
is not impossible.

Many perfectly legal things for citizens may be
deportable offense to aliens. For example,
prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada
but aliens involved are to be deported.

Once you are a citizen....the term "alien" is no more applicable. You would be subject to US court laws applicable to citizens. A drug case may end up in jail time rather than 'deportation'.

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by ****

Unless you obtained citizenship by fraud like hiding a material fact. In that case, CIS uses the position that you never really acquired citizenship, and the provisions of INA relating to aliens apply.

That explain why almost no one ever filed lawsuit against CIS.
More or less CIS can dig up some dirts about you if they want to.

[GCLookup]

Originally Posted by ****

Unless you obtained citizenship by fraud like hiding a material fact. In that case, CIS uses the position that you never really acquired citizenship, and the provisions of INA relating to aliens apply.

Unless CIS revokes citizenship by proper proceeding, you are liable to US court laws applicable to citizens. CIS can't apply alien LAW just on DOUBT of fraud. Aswell CIS can revoke citizenship based on fraud only within 5yrs of granting citizenship, after that citizenship can be revoked only for treasons not for fraud.

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by GCLookup

Unless CIS revokes citizenship by proper proceeding, you are liable to US court laws applicable to citizens. CIS can't apply alien LAW just on DOUBT of fraud. Aswell CIS can revoke citizenship based on fraud only within 5yrs of granting citizenship, after that citizenship can be revoked only for treasons not for fraud.

Some ex-NAZIs were de-natualized and then deported. The grounds
should be fraud - they did not say they were once- NAZI at the time
of entering states, getting the GC, and becoing citizens.

They did not have NAZI actitivies after becoming citizens
and there are actually neo-NAZI among natual born citizens.

[GCLookup]

Originally Posted by AmericanWannabe

Some ex-NAZIs were de-natualized and then deported. The grounds
should be fraud - they did not say they were once- NAZI at the time
of entering states, getting the GC, and becoing citizens.

They did not have NAZI actitivies after becoming citizens
and there are actually neo-NAZI among natual born citizens.

Being associated with NAZI anytime can fit into treason category and thats what lead to de-natualized. But other crimes(including inconsistancies in citizenship document ) which are not treason don't lead to de-natualization after 5yrs of natualization

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by GCLookup

Being associated with NAZI anytime can fit into treason category and thats what lead to de-natualized. But other crimes(including inconsistancies in citizenship document ) which are not treason don't lead to de-natualization after 5yrs of natualization

Being associated with NAZI prior to coming to USA can not fit into
treatson, at least not treason against USA.

[GCLookup]

Originally Posted by AmericanWannabe

Being associated with NAZI prior to coming to USA can not fit into
treatson, at least not treason against USA.

You are right.

Originally Posted by AmericanWannabe

Some ex-NAZIs were de-natualized and then deported.should be fraud - they did not say they were once- NAZI at the time
of entering states, getting the GC, and becoing citizens

In Above case, CIS can deport them on the basis of fraud information while getting citizenship only within 5yrs of their citizenship. So they must have deported within 5yrs of their citizenship.

[pralay]

Originally Posted by GCLookup

In Above case, CIS can deport them on the basis of fraud information while getting citizenship only within 5yrs of their citizenship. So they must have deported within 5yrs of their citizenship.

There are ex-nazis got deported after 50 years (not five) of US citizenship. Very recent case is Wasylike case at NY (in 2001-2002).

[GCLookup]

Originally Posted by pralay

There are ex-nazis got deported after 50 years (not five) of US citizenship. Very recent case is Wasylike case at NY (in 2001-2002).

My bad. There is no time limit for it.

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by GCLookup

My bad. There is no time limit for it.

If Arnold Swschzewagner (sp?) worked illegally when he
was still on nonimmigrant visa as he himself admited, why does
CIS not take any action against him? The election can be nullified and the
former governor can take his job back.

He still hopes one day he can run for the president office
if the constitution changes.

[alren]

Originally Posted by ****

Because he married a US citizen and his former working without authorization is then forgiven.

Huh! How so?

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by ****

Because he married a US citizen and his former working without authorization is then forgiven.

Is it automatically forgiven or one has to go thru some formal
forgiveness procedure?

Maybe CIS also forgive not reporting change of address,
not carrying the GC, quiting the GC sponsor too early
etc for immediate relatives of citizens.

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by ****

That's automatic.
Nope. That's not in the law.

Then CIS still can look into whether Arnold reported
change of address or not. CIS can check his
AR-11 records against his driver license record
to see if two sequences of address match or not.

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by ****

CIS has said that if you file an AR-11, former failure to do so won't matter. I remember that there is a memo to that effect. All they want is your current address, not your address from a couple years ago.

Then that is comforting.

[alren]

That's again theory right?

If CIS wants then the fact one did not file AR-11 for an earlier address change can be still held against you ... I mean if they want something to take action on then they will ...

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by ****

Well, with an official memo it is hard for them to take action, since every lawyer can just point to that memo.
But of course, you can never be sure with them...

This memo applies only to people who filed AR-11 in-time
for current address but not for previous address. But does it also
applies to people who did not file ANY AR11 at all and whose
current and latest address did not even require AR-11
because they were already citizens at the time of last address change?

I believe Arnold was among the second case.

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by ****

CIS has no jurisdiction over citizens, except in cases where citizenship was obtained by fraud.
Besides, the rule that not filing an AR-11 makes you deportable was, if I remember right, only added fairly recently.

INA265 (8 USC 1305) says it is deportable and INA265
has been there for a long time. There is a memo with INS that
says failure to file AR11 alone is not ground for
deportation.

In fact, that guy picked in North Carolina was not deported
because the judge ruled against.

As for citizens who failed to do AR-11 when they were
non-citizens, the CIS can argue that in hyper technical
terms, anyone who failed to report AR-11 lose legal status
automatically, and this would make Arnold's natualization
a fraud. He did not disclose his illegal status at the
time of getting citizenship

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by ****

Actually, the penalties are listed in INA 266.
And it has this little clause: "unless such alien establishes to the satisfaction of the Attorney General that such failure was reasonably excusable or was not willful."
That clause saved the guy in North Carolina...

Why did he also use this clause to save him from convcition?
Or this clause ony applies to deportation ?

[GCLookup]

Originally Posted by AmericanWannabe

As for citizens who failed to do AR-11 when they were
non-citizens, the CIS can argue that in hyper technical
terms, anyone who failed to report AR-11 lose legal status
automatically, and this would make Arnold's natualization
a fraud. He did not disclose his illegal status at the
time of getting citizenship

You seems to be pretty anti-arnold. I hear that arnold is doing good as Governer of CA and might run for president if constitution is amended. Arnold should be HERO for immigrants. So if CIS can't atleast you should forgive him

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by GCLookup

You seems to be pretty anti-arnold. I hear that arnold is doing good as Governer of CA and might run for president if constitution is amended. Arnold should be HERO for immigrants. So if CIS can't atleast you should forgive him

To run for president, one has to be a natual born citizen.
Does "born to US citizens in a foreign country" count?

[GCLookup]

Originally Posted by AmericanWannabe

To run for president, one has to be a natual born citizen.
Does "born to US citizens in a foreign country" count?

I don't think so. They have to born on US land. Bad luck for Arnold as well you dude,no chance for running president. Better luck in next life

[AmericanWannabe]

Originally Posted by GCLookup

I don't think so. They have to born on US land. Bad luck for Arnold as well you dude,no chance for running president. Better luck in next life

Children born to US citizens outside USA also get US citizenships.
How come they are not natural born citizens?

[GCLookup]

Originally Posted by AmericanWannabe

Children born to US citizens outside USA also get US citizenships.
How come they are not natural born citizens?

You are right. They are natural born citizens as long as they fit in one of following criterias.

Title 8, Section 1401 of the U.S. Code states the following persons are considered "citizens at birth" and therefore eligible to run for President or Vice-President:

* Anyone born in the United States.
* Any Native American or Native Alaskan born in the United States (provided that U.S. citizenship does not affect the person's status as a tribal citizen).
* Anyone born outside the United States to U.S. citizen parents, as long as at least one lived in the United States before the person was born.
* Anyone born outside the United States if one parent is a U.S. citizen who lived in the U.S. for at least a year, and the other is a U.S. national.
* Anyone born in a U.S. possession if at least one parent is a U.S. citizen who lived in the U.S. for at least a year.
* Anyone found in the U.S. before the age of five whose parentage is unknown, as long as proof of foreign birth is not shown by age 21.
* Anyone born outside the United States to an alien parent and a citizen parent who lived in the United States for at least five years (military and diplomatic service or dependency to be included in this requirement).
* Anyone born before May 23, 1934 to an alien father and a citizen mother who lived in the United States for any period.