US Citizen and Child

[Pungiwalla]

Let's say me, wife and Daughter(8yrs) are green card holder, 2 yrs down the road my wife and daughter moves to India so they will not be able to meet residency requirement and hence loose GC. I continue to saty here and obtain my citizenship after 5 yrs.

Could file for citizenship for my wife and child once i become citizen ? How long it will take ? Will they become citizen or they will get GC and they will have to go through the same cycle to obtain the citizenship ?

If I move back to india as a citizen, could I file for citizenship for my daughter ? Will she directly become the citizen or first GC and then same cycle ?

[daihard]

I believe your wife and daughter will first have to (re-)obtain green cards through you. They will then have to go through the same 5-year cycle before they become eligible for naturalization. I am not sure if the time they spend in the U.S. with their current GC will be counted towards their residency requirements later.

AFAIK, the best way for your wife and daughter to get U.S. citizenship is to stay with you for 5 years and get naturalized all together.

[Avalon]

Pungiwalla,

Here is something you can try. But there is no gaurantee.

Your daughter and wife need to be in US for 5 years as GC holder. Out of these 60 months, 30 months prior to filing of CZ needs to be continuous. Your daughter and wife should show 30 months of continuous US residence in the second leg of 60 months. Continuous residency invalidates if they stay abroad at a stretch for more than 6 months. For the first leg of 30 months they can maintain GC by visiting you every year ( before 12 months have passed). This way they can maintain GC. This is easy. Having a spouse and close realtion like father does not prevent their entry. In the second leg of 30 months they will have to travel every 5 months. Bit easy to say than done.

In case, their GC is revoked then you can apply again if you are a cz. They may get GC again but maintaing the GC is again a hassel.

[daihard]

Originally Posted by Avalon

Your daughter and wife need to be in US for 5 years as GC holder. Out of these 60 months, 30 months prior to filing of CZ needs to be continuous. Your daughter and wife should show 30 months of continuous US residence in the second leg of 60 months. Continuous residency invalidates if they stay abroad at a stretch for more than 6 months. For the first leg of 30 months they can maintain GC by visiting you every year ( before 12 months have passed). This way they can maintain GC. This is easy. Having a spouse and close realtion like father does not prevent their entry. In the second leg of 30 months they will have to travel every 5 months. Bit easy to say than done.

That may work, but it looks to me like getting around the green card restrictions. Green cards are for those who live in the U.S. Why do his wife and daughter need green cards if they "move back to" India?

[Avalon]

If strong 'intent' is there then entry can not be denied. For a wife an entry can not be denied if she is joining her husband. For a daughter an entry can not be denied if she is joining her father. It is unlawful to separate families casuing them hardship. As long as they are within 12 months limit their entry can not be challenged.

[Avalon]

Entry can always be denied.

Yes it can be but not if your entr is legitimate and valid.

She can be denied entry if she has abandoned her GC.

Yes, but she is maintaing it legally anyway.

Nobody prevents the families to unite in their home country. There is no right to unite in the US.

Yes and no one should prevent but you are forgetting the fact that husband is in US and HOME COUNTRY is US.

US does not force their citizens to reside in US so why should they do to GC holders? And if they are so concerned about taking the GC away why do they give GC to people freely who have crossed border illegally?

[daihard]

Originally Posted by unitednations

My understanding is that if you are married to a u.s. citizen then you only need to wait for three years. From reading the rules the three years is not if you get the greencard through marriage but rather all you need to do is have a greencard and be married for three years (as long as greencard is at least three years old, ie., you can't be married for three years, get greencard and then apply for citizenship right away.

I think that's correct. I incorrectly stated that his wife and daughter would have to wait for another five years. I should have said three years instead.

Honestly, though, I'm having a hard time understanding this whole thing. For me, I got my permanent resident status because I wanted to reside in the U.S. permanently (doh!!!). That being the case I sure wouldn't want my wife to leave me and go back to Japan.

[Pungiwalla]

****,
You are not only retard but big "F" as your name suggests. You pretend that you have a great knowledge in this area but now I think you know nothing other than defending what you say once, even if it is wrong. You don't know how to be practicle and use your brain to find a way through difficult situations. The following post by "unitednations" should open our eyes and no one should ever take any advise from you. Last but not least, no one wants to you to give us any philosophical lectures, we know it all and could give you some more, if you want. To say the least, following post proves that you have no knowledge of how the immigration and all this stuff works !!! So stay away..little boy! will you ?
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My personal take on this issue is that people are giving scenarios and they want to know what they need to do to make it work.

If I was in Pungiwalla's situation this is what I would do or consider to do:

1) apply for re-entry permit for wife and child. This will allow them to stay away for two years without losing greencard (as long as they have not abandoned their residence in the usa. The things they would need to do is to maintain bank accounts, drivers licence, residence, credit cards, etc. This should be easy to do since the husband will be living here).

2) Since wife and daughter will break the continuing residency test (outside for more than six months) their clock would start again for citizenship test. This can be easily overcome. Once the husband applies for citizenship and the daughter has her greencard she should get citizenship automatically through her father as long as she is not 18. I don't believe the child needs to meet the continuing residency or physical presence test. The wife will not be allowed to get automatic citizenship with the husband. However, she would not need to wait for five years either. My understanding is that if you are married to a u.s. citizen then you only need to wait for three years. From reading the rules the three years is not if you get the greencard through marriage but rather all you need to do is have a greencard and be married for three years (as long as greencard is at least three years old, ie., you can't be married for three years, get greencard and then apply for citizenship right away.

I welcome any comments and suggestions (just don't jump all over me as I am writing out loud).

[Pungiwalla]

Ok Guys,
If I become a US citizen, I could file for my daughter(with no GC) who would be unmarried and below 21 yrs, she should directly become US citizen.

Could someone confirm this ?

[Pungiwalla]

Originally Posted by ****

Huh?
What's your problem?
If you can show me where I've been wrong, do so. Otherwise, stop whining.
I have seen lots of people your ilk: asking for advice, and then, if you don't like it, insulting the messenger...
Welcome to my killfile.

Now onwards, I simply refuse to believe you...not because whether or not you give correct or incorrect information but I have realized that you just can't answer the question to the point without steering it in some meaningless philosophical discussion. You tell what you want to tell or what you know...you don't understand the question properly and hence you don't answer properly.

It is none of anyone's business here to try and figure out why anyone is doing whatever he/she is doing. Leave that to them, if someone has got the USGC, they are smart enough to figure out what's right and what's wrong.

[Pungiwalla]

Originally Posted by unitednations

No, if you became citizen after birth of your child, your child would need to have a greencard first to become a citizen. If you sponsored her for the greencard and she got it before she turned 18 and moved to the US then she can file for citizenship right away. If she was over 18 then she could not get citizenship through you but would rather have to wait five years.

Thanks Unitednations, So let's say I become a citizen, go to my home country and file GC (through CP) for daughter, We both come here in United states, could I then file for her citizenship without having to go through 3 or 5 yrs residency requirement ? Assume that she is unmarried and below 18 etc.

[Avalon]

Pungiwalla I can understand your frustration. Remember one thing "In life we do not have control of what other's think, say or do, BUT we have control over what we think, say or do. And what we think, say or do is more important than anything else." So relax.

Please take **** as blessings in disguise. We need people who can answer our questions. It is up to us to believe them or not. **** does a job of telling what he knows and he does cite rules from USCIS website. Please do not shoot messenger. We all know that he is not the one who made these rules. If you understand "Devil's Advocate" then you will know what I am talking about.

I have said in the past and I will repeat the same here, **** may not tell you what "works" but he will tell you what "does not work" in the legal system. It is up to you then to figure your way out.

If I have offended anyone then please apologize me.

Thanks.

[Avalon]

To UnitedNations,

Coming back to point, UnitedNations, you have told some good points. I would like to confirm the same by the source of your information. It would be good if you could post some website links to what you wrote. The points that you wrote were,

1. Zero Residency Requirement - The daughter does not need to undergo residency requirement if she is under 18 and if pungiwalla applies for her GC then she gets it and IMMEDIATELY after obtaining GC she can file for citizenship.

2. Waiver of Affidavit of Support - The second point was if Pungiwalla stays in India for three years and applies for his daughter's GC then he does not need to show the source of his income.

Please correct me where I am wrong.

Thanks.

[Avalon]

To pungiwalla,

Your original Q was,

Let's say me, wife and Daughter(8yrs) are green card holder, 2 yrs down the road my wife and daughter moves to India so they will not be able to meet residency requirement and hence loose GC. I continue to saty here and obtain my citizenship after 5 yrs.

If your family is leaving US 2 years down the road then they have three years left for 5 y residency requirement. They have to maintain GC for 3 y after which they can apply for cz provided,

1 they maintain GC by not staying more than 12 months at a stretch outside US. This means for three years they will have to travel yearly.

2. They do not break continuous residency requirement to count 5 y towards cz, and continouous residency means not away from US for more than 6 months at a stretch. This means they have to travel every 6 months and this is something you need to work out.


The above option is just the theorotical solution, in practice, both your wife and daughter could be asked several Qs at POE by officer. The first time it is noticed by POE officer then they may not be in trouble but second time they may get into something big.

You can find the solution in two ways,

1. Ask some immigration lawyers to find a best solution. This tells you theory.
2. Ask those who have had trouble getting back to US after staying too long out of US. This part is difficult but it tells you what happens in practice.

[Pungiwalla]

Huh? I have answered your questions, according to what the law says. If you consider that a "meaningless philosophical discussion", then you haven't understood that the US is based on a system of law.
My philosophical post in this thread was an answer to somebody else.

****, you get this out of your head that you are the only who knows law and follow it and all other are here to break it !!

I am entering US through POE, At POE immigration officer has access to date of entry/exit and he could ask any question, As a citizen I am applying for CP for my daughter, again US consulate will have all the information, As a Citizen I am filling US taxes.....all of this will automaticall happen if i were to excercise the option i am exporing here.

So stop telling people that if you live outside US for more than six months, you will losse GC and that if your intetions are not permanent then give up GC. Everyone knows that !!! That's not a brainer and that alone is not a law. we don't need **** to tell us that.

[Pungiwalla]

Originally Posted by Avalon

To pungiwalla,

Your original Q was,

If your family is leaving US 2 years down the road then they have three years left for 5 y residency requirement. They have to maintain GC for 3 y after which they can apply for cz provided,

1 they maintain GC by not staying more than 12 months at a stretch outside US. This means for three years they will have to travel yearly.

THEY COULD TRAVEL ONCE A YEAR FOR THREE MONTHS DURING SUMMER VACATION, BUT THEY WILL BE AWAY FOR MORE THAN SIX MONTHS. ALSO I HAVE READ SOMEWHERE THAT LAST HALF OF 5 YRS PERIOD I.E. LAST 2.5 YRS SHOULD BE CONTINEOUS RESIDENCY.

2. They do not break continuous residency requirement to count 5 y towards cz, and continouous residency means not away from US for more than 6 months at a stretch. This means they have to travel every 6 months and this is something you need to work out.
PLEASE SEE ABOVE THIS IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT

The above option is just the theorotical solution, in practice, both your wife and daughter could be asked several Qs at POE by officer. The first time it is noticed by POE officer then they may not be in trouble but second time they may get into something big.

You can find the solution in two ways,

1. Ask some immigration lawyers to find a best solution. This tells you theory.
2. Ask those who have had trouble getting back to US after staying too long out of US. This part is difficult but it tells you what happens in practice.

[daihard]

Originally Posted by Pungiwalla

So stop telling people that if you live outside US for more than six months, you will losse GC and that if your intetions are not permanent then give up GC. Everyone knows that !!! That's not a brainer and that alone is not a law. we don't need **** to tell us that.

Green cards are for those who intend to live in the U.S. permanently, aren't they? I don't think **** has said anything remotely close to "if you live outside the U.S. for more than six months, you will lose your GC." All he's saying is that if you do NOT intend to live in the U.S. permanently and just try to get around that in order to keep your GC, then you will be in trouble.

[Avalon]

pungiwalla,

One solution -
See that your family visits you once every six months, a very hard to implement in practice.

30 months - Even one attorney told me that the continuous residency needs to be in last 2.5 y of 5 y period. Please confirm this by finding relevant USCIS code.

Let us be patient and find a way out. I will be monitoring your thread until we come to conclusion.

[Avalon]

****

What is the difference between "continuous residence" and "physical presence"?

[Avalon]

****,

So are visits abroad allowed in "physical presence" test and if yes, how long?

For example, in "continuous presence" test, visits abroad for less than 6 months are not counted.

[Zaye]

I really think these unwarranted and downright silly attacks on **** are completely uncalled for - and we should really have a moderator that can control childish outbursts of this nature in what is otherwise a very educational forum.

**** has never gotten personal in his comments and in my experience has always assisted people in interpreting possible avenues within the letter of the law. Furthermore, when proven wrong, he clearly admits his mistake.

In my personal opinion, people who are looking for loopholes and ways to "weasel" out of legal requirements should not be offended if someone points out that what they are seeking to do is illegal.

[Avalon]

It is not specified when in the 5 years this has to be, and it doesn't have to be continuous.

This is one gray area if understand then we can understand the law better.

[Pungiwalla]

Originally Posted by Avalon

****

What is the difference between "continuous residence" and "physical presence"?

Avalon,

In my opinion contineous residence means you are not staying outside US for extended period of time (more than six months) and or frequency of going out, but again if you had a legitimate reasons and have top travel out of US frequently , your intetions still remain to be permanent in US. For e.g if your employment requires you to travel outside frequently then this will be alright.

Physical presence requires you to be in the US for 2.5 yrs out of 5 yrs residency requirement.

[nkm-oct23]

Originally Posted by unitednations

****, question for you about child citizenship.

It appears that a child under 18 can only get citizenship if parent is or becomes citizen.

I know it sounds a little odd but what if parent doesn't want to become citizen but wants child to become citizen.

Is there any way that can happen. I haven't been able to find any guidance on this issue.

There are only two ways a child can become a citizen. Firstly, the child can derive citizenship once its parent(s) become US citizens. The only other way is to wait until the child becomes an adult and applies for citizenship on his own.

[Avalon]

Pungiwalla,

UnitedNations has given a lot of information. This is a good news that your child, as long as below 18 can derive Citizenship immediately after getting GC without having to wait for 3 or 5 years and without showing affidavit of support.

Please explore the links and I am sure now you are less worried about your child's GC and Citizenship. If you still have questions then please put them in this forum and people will be happy to answer.

[Pork Chop]

Originally Posted by Pungiwalla

That's not a brainer

you can say that again!

[Pungiwalla]

Thanks guys. Ok So let's say, I obtain my US citizenship, My daughter who is below 18 living in india(no GC), I go to India, I file for her GC through CP, assuming she gets a GC, could I apply for US citizenship at US consulate in india ? or first you have to travel to US, get a GC and then file for naturalization ?

[Avalon]

United Nations

I believe if she is born after you get citizenship then greencard and residency in the u.s. is not required.

Could you please eloborate this....

[Avalon]

Pungiwalla,

Now you need to find the time line. That is,

1. When you will get citizenship?
2. When will you file for GC through CP?
3. How long will it take to get GC?
4. When you will file for citizenship for your daughter?
5. How long will it take to get citizenship for your daughter?

This is because you have to do this before your daughter turns 18 and you need to make sure that every variable fits into the time line.

[nkm-oct23]

This is from "A guide to Naturalization":

A child who is born to two alien parents who naturalize after the child’s birth
can become a U.S. citizen by action of law on the date on which all of the following
requirements have been met:
• The child was lawfully admitted for permanent residence*, and
• Either parent was a United States citizen by birth or naturalization**; and
• The child was still under 18 years of age; and
• The child was not married; and
• The child was the parent’s legitimate child
• The child was residing in the United States in the legal custody of the U.S. citizen parent (this includes joint custody); and
• The child was residing in the United States in the physical custody of the U.S. citizen parent.
If you and your child meet all of these requirements, you may obtain a U.S. passport for the child as evidence of citizenship.

This suggests that a minor child needs to be admitted to US as LPR and physically stay with citizen parent(s) in the US in order to apply for citizenship.