Will this country be doomed if too diversified?

[WBH]

If there is no major dominant ethnical group, sooner or later the country will break up. There is no such thing as American expetionism.
America , like any other countries, is subject to teh historical law



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47458196.../#.T7UFimt5mSM



Census: Minorities now surpass whites in US births
For the first time, racial and ethnic minorities make up more than half the children born in the US
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Hispanic population growth reflects diverse nation video

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x Next story in Life For first time, minorities surpass whites in US births
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updated 5/17/2012 7:33:21 AM ET 2012-05-17T11:33:21
Print Font: +-WASHINGTON — For the first time, racial and ethnic minorities make up more than half the children born in the U.S., capping decades of heady immigration growth that is now slowing.

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..New 2011 census estimates highlight sweeping changes in the nation's racial makeup and the prolonged impact of a weak economy, which is now resulting in fewer Hispanics entering the U.S.

"This is an important landmark," said Roderick Harrison, a former chief of racial statistics at the Census Bureau who is now a sociologist at Howard University. "This generation is growing up much more accustomed to diversity than its elders."

The report comes as the Supreme Court prepares to rule on the legality of Arizona's strict immigration law, with many states weighing similar get-tough measures.

"We remain in a dangerous period where those appealing to anti-immigration elements are fueling a divisiveness and hostility that might take decades to overcome," Harrison said.

As a whole, the nation's minority population continues to rise, following a higher-than-expected Hispanic count in the 2010 census. Minorities increased 1.9 percent to 114.1 million, or 36.6 percent of the total U.S. population, lifted by prior waves of immigration that brought in young families and boosted the number of Hispanic women in their prime childbearing years.

But a recent slowdown in the growth of the Hispanic and Asian populations is shifting notions on when the tipping point in U.S. diversity will come — the time when non-Hispanic whites become a minority. After 2010 census results suggested a crossover as early as 2040, demographers now believe the pivotal moment may be pushed back several years when new projections are released in December.

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.The annual growth rates for Hispanics and Asians fell sharply last year to just over 2 percent, roughly half the rates in 2000 and the lowest in more than a decade. The black growth rate stayed flat at 1 percent.

The immigrants staying put in the U.S. for now include Narcisa Marcelino, 34, a single mother who lives with her two daughters, ages 10 and 5, in Martinsburg, W.Va. After crossing into the U.S. from Mexico in 2000, she followed her brother to the eastern part of the state just outside the Baltimore-Washington region. The Martinsburg area is known for hiring hundreds of migrants annually to work in fruit orchards. Its Hispanic growth climbed from 14 percent to 18 percent between 2000 and 2005 before shrinking last year to 3.3 percent, still above the national average.

Marcelino says she sells food from her home to make ends meet for her family and continues to hope that one day she will get a hearing with immigration officials to stay legally in the U.S. She aspires to open a restaurant and is learning English at a community college so she can help other Spanish-language speakers.

If she is eventually deported, "it wouldn't be that tragic," Marcelino said. "But because the children have been born here, this is their country. And there are more opportunities for them here."

Hispanic population boom may have peaked
Of the 30 large metropolitan areas showing the fastest Hispanic growth in the previous decade, all showed slower growth in 2011 than in the peak Hispanic growth years of 2005-2006, when the construction boom attracted new migrants to low-wage work. They include Lakeland, Fla.; Charlotte, N.C.; Atlanta; Provo, Utah; Las Vegas; and Phoenix. All but two — Fort Myers, Fla., and Dallas-Fort Worth — also grew more slowly last year than in 2010, hurt by the jobs slump.

Pointing to a longer-term decline in immigration, demographers believe the Hispanic population boom may have peaked.

"The Latino population is very young, which means they will continue to have a lot of births relative to the general population," said Mark Mather, associate vice president of the Population Reference Bureau. "But we're seeing a slowdown that is likely the result of multiple factors: declining Latina birth rates combined with lower immigration levels. If both of these trends continue, they will lead to big changes down the road."

William H. Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution who analyzed the census data, noted that government debates over immigration enforcement may now be less pressing, given slowing growth. "The current congressional and Supreme Court interest in reducing immigration — and the concerns especially about low-skilled and undocumented Hispanic immigration — represent issues that could well be behind us," he said.

Minorities made up roughly 2.02 million, or 50.4 percent of U.S. births in the 12-month period ending July 2011. That compares with 37 percent in 1990.

In all, 348 of the nation's 3,143 counties, or 1 in 9, have minority populations across all age groups that total more than 50 percent. In a sign of future U.S. race and ethnic change, the number of counties reaching the tipping point increases to more than 690, or nearly 1 in 4, when looking only at the under age 5 population.

The counties in transition include Maricopa (Phoenix), Ariz.; King (Seattle), Wash.; Travis (Austin), Texas; and Palm Beach, Fla., where recent Hispanic births are driving the increased diversity among children. Also high on the list are suburban counties such as Fairfax, Va., just outside the nation's capital, and Westchester, N.Y., near New York City, where more open spaces are a draw for young families who are increasingly minority.

According to the latest data, the percentage growth of Hispanics slowed from 4.2 percent in 2001 to 2.5 percent last year. Their population growth would have been even lower if it weren't for their relatively high fertility rates — seven births for every death. The median age of U.S. Hispanics is 27.6 years.

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.Births actually have been declining for both whites and minorities as many women postponed having children during the economic slump. But the drop since 2008 has been larger for whites, who have a median age of 42. The number of white births fell by 11.4 percent, compared with 3.2 percent for minorities, according to Kenneth Johnson, a sociologist at the University of New Hampshire.

Asian population increases also slowed, from 4.5 percent in 2001 to about 2.2 percent. Hispanics and Asians still are the two fastest-growing minority groups, making up about 16.7 percent and 4.8 percent of the U.S. population, respectively.

Blacks, who comprise about 12.3 percent of the population, have increased at a rate of about 1 percent each year. Whites have increased very little in recent years.

Other findings:

—The migration of black Americans back to the South is slowing. New destinations in the South, including Atlanta, Charlotte, N.C., Raleigh, N.C., and Orlando, Fla., saw sharp drop-offs in black population growth as the prolonged housing bust kept African-Americans locked in place in traditional big cities. Metro areas including New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco had reduced declines or gains.

—Nine U.S. counties in five states saw their minority populations across all age groups surpass 50 percent last year. They were Sutter and Yolo in California; Quitman in Georgia; Cumberland in New Jersey; Colfax in New Mexico; and Lynn, Mitchell, Schleicher and Swisher in Texas.

—Maverick County, Texas, had the largest share of minorities at 96.8 percent, followed by Webb County, Texas, and Wade Hampton, Alaska, both at 96 percent.

—Four states — Hawaii, California, New Mexico and Texas — as well as the District of Columbia have minority populations that exceed 50 percent.

The census estimates used local records of births and deaths, tax records of people moving within the U.S., and census statistics on immigrants. The figures for "white" refer to those whites who are not of Hispanic ethnicity.

[nwctzn]

Talking about history, how about Switzerland? Three very different ethnic groups: French, German, Italian; and they have been a country for a pretty long time since the year 1291.

And then the USA: It started off with a very diversified group anyway and worked out pretty well. This country will become even better.

[WBH]

Talking about history, how about Switzerland? Three very different ethnic groups: French, German, Italian; and they have been a country for a pretty long time since the year 1291.

And then the USA: It started off with a very diversified group anyway and worked out pretty well. This country will become even better.

I seriously doubt it. At this trend, USA will regressed to the average of South America or the rest of teh world sooner or later.

Swizerland is not an good example here since French German amd Italy are all West Europeans. There are more examples of multi-ethnic
countries breaking up than sticking together. There was once a time that people so believe in teh system of America and take it granted
that the country's system was so perfectly set up and it could resolve any issue. Nowadays not many peopel buy it anymore.

[nwctzn]

I seriously doubt it. At this trend, USA will regressed to the average of South America or the rest of teh world sooner or later.

Swizerland is not an good example here since French German amd Italy are all West Europeans. There are more examples of multi-ethnic
countries breaking up than sticking together. There was once a time that people so believe in teh system of America and take it granted
that the country's system was so perfectly set up and it could resolve any issue. Nowadays not many peopel buy it anymore.

Well, are you suggesting we naturalized for nothing?

I decided to move to the Moon Colony then, once it is up and running!

[WBH]

Well, are you suggesting we naturalized for nothing?

I decided to move to the Moon Colony then, once it is up and running!

I did not say that. We only expect to live 80 years and at the time of naturalization we only expect to live a few dozens more. At the individual level, the future of the country or the world may not be our business. In fact at individual level, you should bear as many children as possible
and don't bother to think whtehr you are diluting or enriching the orthodox gene pool of any country for that matter.

[nwctzn]

I did not say that. We only expect to live 80 years and at the time of naturalization we only expect to live a few dozens more. At the individual level, the future of the country or the world may not be our business. In fact at individual level, you should bear as many children as possible
and don't bother to think whtehr you are diluting or enriching the orthodox gene pool of any country for that matter.

I am still insisting on my Moon Colony idea: Space is the final frontier!

[PRAHA]

I am still insisting on my Moon Colony idea: Space is the final frontier!

economy is is destroying this country
I think this country can not sustain itself if the economy continue the slump (which it will) -its bound to break
rich people are already leaving in droves somewhere else
and poor people are just fed up -you will see;;on the next election for president less then 50% of voters would vote

[nwctzn]

economy is is destroying this country
I think this country can not sustain itself if the economy continue the slump (which it will) -its bound to break
rich people are already leaving in droves somewhere else
and poor people are just fed up -you will see;;on the next election for president less then 50% of voters would vote

Well, the rest of the "western" world does not look rosy either: Look at Europe!

Plus, other emerging economies have their own growing pains, too. So???

Maybe I am too optimistic, but for the near future, including that of my kids', the US will remain strong. Just my two cents.

[WBH]

Well, the rest of the "western" world does not look rosy either: Look at Europe!

Plus, other emerging economies have their own growing pains, too. So???

Maybe I am too optimistic, but for the near future, including that of my kids', the US will remain strong. Just my two cents.

In the long run, economy is not a problem (unless oil run out and human race can not find alternative in time but this kind of issue
belong to another realm).

[König]

If there is no major dominant ethnical group, sooner or later the country will break up.

If this is ever to happen, I know where I will be moving To the newly formed Oregon Country!

I have no illusion where Mexi... California is drifting, and I will be damned if I am forced to become its citizen! Plus, Mexifornians would probably require visas to visit most of the countries in the world.

[WBH]

If this is ever to happen, I know where I will be moving To the newly formed Oregon Country!

I have no illusion where Mexi... California is drifting, and I will be damned if I am forced to become its citizen! Plus, Mexifornians would probably require visas to visit most of the countries in the world.

We are immigrants ourselves so that we can not be anti-immigrant. But let's face it, if the dominant ethnical group drops to half of teh total population, the country has reached its half-life critical point, and the point of quarter-life will notbe far away.

Don't laugh at other countries any more. For any other country no matter what hardship they experiecce, 100 years later, will
still be 100% occupied by descendants of current population. America will be different. Old American generatrion die out
and future Americans are descendents of people who knows where are living now.

[König]

We are immigrants ourselves so that we can not be anti-immigrant. But let's face it, if the dominant ethnical group drops to half of teh total population, the country has reached its half-life critical point, and the point of quarter-life will notbe far away.

Don't laugh at other countries any more. For any other country no matter what hardship they experiecce, 100 years later, will
still be 100% occupied by descendants of current population. America will be different. Old American generatrion die out
and future Americans are descendents of people who knows where are living now.

So, what is your point? Countries can never exist forever. Roman Empire was probably the longest living one, and still it existed for "only" 2,000 years (if you count from the early Republic to the Byzantine Empire). Territories with certain political and social order always evolve over time - is it good or bad? I don't know, but it is a fact of life. The only thing I care about is that I live through evolution, and not revolution.

[nwctzn]

So, what is your point? Countries can never exist forever. Roman Empire was probably the longest living one, and still it existed for "only" 2,000 years (if you count from the early Republic to the Byzantine Empire). Territories with certain political and social order always evolve over time - is it good or bad? I don't know, but it is a fact of life. The only thing I care about is that I live through evolution, and not revolution.

+1

[WBH]

So, what is your point? Countries can never exist forever. Roman Empire was probably the longest living one, and still it existed for "only" 2,000 years (if you count from the early Republic to the Byzantine Empire). Territories with certain political and social order always evolve over time - is it good or bad? I don't know, but it is a fact of life. The only thing I care about is that I live through evolution, and not revolution.

Do you know why Roman Empire ceased to exist? I think teh major reason is it romanized its citizens much slower than it
absorbed more people into it. America is now accepting more people than it can Americanize. It doe snot bode well
for the country

[nwctzn]

Do you know why Roman Empire ceased to exist? I think teh major reason is it romanized its citizens much slower than it
absorbed more people into it. America is now accepting more people than it can Americanize. It doe snot bode well
for the country

So what should the US do? What do you suggest?

[WBH]

So what should the US do? What do you suggest?

It is time for teh US to transform itself into a nation-state by melting as much as possible and stop
taking more immigrants in than any other average country in the rest of the world.

[nwctzn]

It is time for teh US to transform itself into a nation-state by melting as much as possible and stop
taking more immigrants in than any other average country in the rest of the world.

Hmm... It's like shutting the door once you are in (naturalized). I strongly disagree with your view which can lead to more dangerous views like throwing out current immigrants.

I am looking at your timeline and it looks like you naturalized two years ago. What happened in these two years of yourself as a US citizen? Do you suddenly feel there are too many immigrants? Don't forget your own roots. You were an immigrant as well and this country was built by immigrants!

[cafeconleche]

You are out of your mind if you think immigration is BAD. The mistake being made in Europe is the maintenance of tight immigration controls. The US is quite competitive and exciting very much DUE to our immigration policies rather than IN SPITE of it. Check out Zakaria's article http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....ion-advantage/

Seriously. You benefit from it, and then you want to shut it down. Does it remind you of anyone? Maybe the 'native born' Americans whose ancestors came here sometimes only decades rather than centuries ago. How quickly we forget.

[WBH]

Hmm... It's like shutting the door once you are in (naturalized). I strongly disagree with your view which can lead to more dangerous views like throwing out current immigrants.

I am looking at your timeline and it looks like you naturalized two years ago. What happened in these two years of yourself as a US citizen? Do you suddenly feel there are too many immigrants? Don't forget your own roots. You were an immigrant as well and this country was built by immigrants!

I feel that pain myself. But let's all face it. This can not go on forever. Had USA stopped immigration before I immigrated (defined as getting teh GC rather tahn naturalization), then I would just stayed in my home country.

[WBH]

You are out of your mind if you think immigration is BAD. The mistake being made in Europe is the maintenance of tight immigration controls. The US is quite competitive and exciting very much DUE to our immigration policies rather than IN SPITE of it. Check out Zakaria's article http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....ion-advantage/

Seriously. You benefit from it, and then you want to shut it down. Does it remind you of anyone? Maybe the 'native born' Americans whose ancestors came here sometimes only decades rather than centuries ago. How quickly we forget.

All these points are valid. But they all miss one big point: this can not go on forever. Once the tipping point is passed, all good things turn
bad.

[WBH]

You are out of your mind if you think immigration is BAD. The mistake being made in Europe is the maintenance of tight immigration controls. The US is quite competitive and exciting very much DUE to our immigration policies rather than IN SPITE of it. Check out Zakaria's article http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....ion-advantage/

Compettion relying on immigration can not go one forever and is not sustainable forever. It is more like a family never had children or very little children and always depend on adoption. There is nothing wrong with that but giving birth to one's own children should be the first choice.

Seriously. You benefit from it, and then you want to shut it down. Does it remind you of anyone? Maybe the 'native born' Americans whose ancestors came here sometimes only decades rather than centuries ago. How quickly we forget.

I have repeatedly said it is hypocracy for anyone to turn against immigration once immigration is done but just as you said, if you want
to be upright completely, this land shoudl rbe restored to native Americans and everyone else should pack up and leave. and since
no one do that so moral is not the issue here to discuss.

[nwctzn]

... I would just stayed in my home country.

That's easy to say once you are in. Anyway, you are a US citizen now. Just vote for the party which represents your immigration view. And how about if you express your views publicly (and not only on this forum)? I am wondering what answers you will get from fellow immigrants who do all the hard work from low-paying jobs up to the highest academic levels.

--

[WBH]

That's easy to say once you are in. Anyway, you are a US citizen now. Just vote for the party which represents your immigration view. And how about if you express your views publicly (and not only on this forum)? I am wondering what answers you will get from fellow immigrants who do all the hard work from low-paying jobs up to the highest academic levels.

--

I would vote for Ron Paul but don't think he can make it. and I am now registered as independent so can not even vote for him in primary election

[tedS]

Immigration in itself is not bad per se. What is bad is, one, people who do not adopt the American identity and way of life, and keep living like they did in their own countries. Well geniuses, if your way of life was so great, you wouldnt be running to escape your country, would you? Embrace America as your country and way of life.

Secondly, I noticed at the interview and oath ceremony, how some of these new citizens showed no respect for the occasion. Some of these did not even understand simple english. Many seem to want to take advantage of the system created by the hardworking tax payer.

The above two types of immigration is bad for US.

[WBH]

Immigration in itself is not bad per se. What is bad is, one, people who do not adopt the American identity and way of life, and keep living like they did in their own countries. Well geniuses, if your way of life was so great, you wouldnt be running to escape your country, would you? Embrace America as your country and way of life.

Secondly, I noticed at the interview and oath ceremony, how some of these new citizens showed no respect for the occasion. Some of these did not even understand simple english. Many seem to want to take advantage of the system created by the hardworking tax payer.

The above two types of immigration is bad for US.

You have to accept the reality the majority of the people do not have that kind of romantic feeling.
Citizenship is just a change in legal status. Many won't fight for USA even they swear to do so
and since the chance for need to fight is zero anyway so it won't matter.

[nwctzn]

Immigration in itself is not bad per se. What is bad is, one, people who do not adopt the American identity and way of life, and keep living like they did in their own countries. Well geniuses, if your way of life was so great, you wouldnt be running to escape your country, would you? Embrace America as your country and way of life.

Secondly, I noticed at the interview and oath ceremony, how some of these new citizens showed no respect for the occasion. Some of these did not even understand simple english. Many seem to want to take advantage of the system created by the hardworking tax payer.

The above two types of immigration is bad for US.

Greencard holders are hardworking tax payers before their naturalization. Once they become US citizens, they become hardworking tax payers who can vote in the elections and who can carry a US passport.

[WBH]

Greencard holders are hardworking tax payers before their naturalization. Once they become US citizens, they become hardworking tax payers who can vote in the elections and who can carry a US passport.

A teacher from my history course at a local community college says one of reasons why the Roman Empire
collapsed is because citizens did not work and relied on noncitizen slaves who worked hard in order to
become citizens to earn the privilesge of not working. One of his homework qquestion is: do you
see anything similar in the USA?

[nwctzn]

A teacher from my history course at a local community college says one of reasons why the Roman Empire
collapsed is because citizens did not work and relied on noncitizen slaves who worked hard in order to
become citizens to earn the privilesge of not working. One of his homework qquestion is: do you
see anything similar in the USA?

Aha, the US and Roman Empire analogy. So what?

[tedS]

You have to accept the reality the majority of the people do not have that kind of romantic feeling.
Citizenship is just a change in legal status. Many won't fight for USA even they swear to do so
and since the chance for need to fight is zero anyway so it won't matter.

I am not really implying any romanticism associated with getting the citizenship.

It is a fact that immigrants who fail to adopt the culture and values of US will ultimately lead to a sub-optimal result for this country.

American became great based on some values that are part of the American culture - freedom of religion and speech does exist here, politeness, fairness, equality - they all do exist here. They dont exist back in most of our own countries. Corruption is more prevalent in some of our countries than it is in USA.

Hence, what I am arguing is that immigrants who come here and remain Chinese, Indians, and Turkish, more than American, will result in a not so good outcome for the country.

[tedS]

Greencard holders are hardworking tax payers before their naturalization. Once they become US citizens, they become hardworking tax payers who can vote in the elections and who can carry a US passport.

Point noted. But some of us are more productive members of society and pay higher taxes. And not all of us had to go through F1, then H1B, then GC to citizenship process. Many of us are just looking for a loophole so that government can take care of them for the rest of their livs. Maybe I am being a snob, but at the oath ceremony, I saw several people I thought were there just so they can get handouts.