10 year GC is useless, don't you agree?

[Mombasa_guy]

.

[BigJoe5]

Besides the psychological comfort of knowing you're finally barely legal, without citizenship the 10 yrs GC is virtually useless. Reasons being..

1. You can't vote
2. You can't join any exciting organization like the CIA or NSA
3. You can't even get into stinking UK with its crummy weather and dirty river Thames full of druggie needles of all places without a visa if you have a second or "third world" passport. The only ones you can get into are one or two Caribbean ones and Canada; a place nobody likes except ice hockey fans and H1-b's whose GCs didn't come through who had no other choice except to trudge north to the coldest, most desolate, most terrible country in the Northern hemisphere.
4. It will take you like 30 years to import a relative, by the time their GC is ready they (or you) might already be dead.
5. You have to keep it on your arse wherever you go and it can be scanned and read from a distance, with all your info revealed to all, by any low tech RFID reader whenever you pull it out of its sheath.
6. If you as much as crap the wrong way in terms of breaking even the flimsiest of laws you are on the next plane smoking to Timbuctoo, Kerala, Sao Paolo, Beijing or wherever the heck you come from.
7. If you got your stack of degrees before you got PR you are screwed in terms of Pell Grants, State Scholarships and other freebies given to lesser mortals of dubious academic capacity.
8. You not only had to pay hefty fees for the conditional one, but also for the 10YR GC yet in most cases you will only hold on to it for a few freaking months before you have to pay more hefty fees ($680 to be exact); not counting flight, hotel and "entertainment expenses" during your trip to your N-400 interview location.
9. You can't run for office
10. It doesn't help you with the "foreign" chicks, for some reason they tend to like USC holders only.

Agree or disagree?

Once you return home, visit an embassy and file a form I-407 to divest yourself of that cursed albatross known as a greencard.

Don't let the door hit YOU in the "arse" on your way out.

[Jackolantern]

Without the GC, where would you be? Back in "Timbuctoo, Kerala, Sao Paolo, Beijing or wherever the heck you come from", right? So it's not useless, unless you prefer to live in those places anyway.

[Mombasa_guy]

.

[cafeconleche]

The GC is much more secure than those visas, and you know it. Of course, the next logical step is USC, but let's not be pompous about the benefits of a GC. There's no need to be flag-waving patriotic about it (as this is something I have come to despise), but you're being quite unfair to LPR status.

[TheRealCanadian]

The GC is immeasurably better for mombassa_boy. Trolling is not permitted on a non-immigrant visa.

[Mombasa_guy]

.

[nwctzn]

Besides the psychological comfort of knowing you're finally barely legal, without citizenship the 10 yrs GC is virtually useless. Reasons being..

1. You can't vote
2. You can't join any exciting organization like the CIA or NSA
3. You can't even get into stinking UK with its crummy weather and dirty river Thames full of druggie needles of all places without a visa if you have a second or "third world" passport. The only ones you can get into are one or two Caribbean ones and Canada; a place nobody likes except ice hockey fans and H1-b's whose GCs didn't come through who had no other choice except to trudge north to the coldest, most desolate, most terrible country in the Northern hemisphere.
4. It will take you like 30 years to import a relative, by the time their GC is ready they (or you) might already be dead.
5. You have to keep it on your arse wherever you go and it can be scanned and read from a distance, with all your info revealed to all, by any low tech RFID reader whenever you pull it out of its sheath.
6. If you as much as crap the wrong way in terms of breaking even the flimsiest of laws you are on the next plane smoking to Timbuctoo, Kerala, Sao Paolo, Beijing or wherever the heck you come from.
7. If you got your stack of degrees before you got PR you are screwed in terms of Pell Grants, State Scholarships and other freebies given to lesser mortals of dubious academic capacity.
8. You not only had to pay hefty fees for the conditional one, but also for the 10YR GC yet in most cases you will only hold on to it for a few freaking months before you have to pay more hefty fees ($680 to be exact); not counting flight, hotel and "entertainment expenses" during your trip to your N-400 interview location.
9. You can't run for office
10. It doesn't help you with the "foreign" chicks, for some reason they tend to like USC holders only.

Agree or disagree?

It really depends and is very subjective. Some prefer to stay as permanent residents forever since their original country does not allow dual citizenship. Or some do not feel it right to change citizenship. And some, like me, think that since you live, work and pay taxes here, you should have the right to vote and all other rights for citizens. So it is really a personal choice and I totally understand if one stays as permanent resident forever, or if one becomes a citizen at the very first opportunity.

[dis66]

I agree with #10.

[cafeconleche]

I agree with #10.

#10 would be this post by me... and I say dis66 has narcolepsy

[-me-]

Without it I would still be here riding the F-1, OPT, H-1B wave and have 99% of the same privileges as a 10 Year GC holder during all that time. 10 yr GC is overrated I can't wait to get USC so I can start getting some real things done.

It's a rocking sense of humor. So, why don't you give up the green card and switch back to F-1, OPT, H1-B, so you have a chance to really appreciate the green card? ... or may be to prove your point? I'd be interested to read your blog

[PRAHA]

Besides the psychological comfort of knowing you're finally barely legal, without citizenship the 10 yrs GC is virtually useless. Reasons being..

1. You can't vote
2. You can't join any exciting organization like the CIA or NSA
3. You can't even get into stinking UK with its crummy weather and dirty river Thames full of druggie needles of all places without a visa if you have a second or "third world" passport. The only ones you can get into are one or two Caribbean ones and Canada; a place nobody likes except ice hockey fans and H1-b's whose GCs didn't come through who had no other choice except to trudge north to the coldest, most desolate, most terrible country in the Northern hemisphere.
4. It will take you like 30 years to import a relative, by the time their GC is ready they (or you) might already be dead.
5. You have to keep it on your arse wherever you go and it can be scanned and read from a distance, with all your info revealed to all, by any low tech RFID reader whenever you pull it out of its sheath.
6. If you as much as crap the wrong way in terms of breaking even the flimsiest of laws you are on the next plane smoking to Timbuctoo, Kerala, Sao Paolo, Beijing or wherever the heck you come from.
7. If you got your stack of degrees before you got PR you are screwed in terms of Pell Grants, State Scholarships and other freebies given to lesser mortals of dubious academic capacity.
8. You not only had to pay hefty fees for the conditional one, but also for the 10YR GC yet in most cases you will only hold on to it for a few freaking months before you have to pay more hefty fees ($680 to be exact); not counting flight, hotel and "entertainment expenses" during your trip to your N-400 interview location.
9. You can't run for office
10. It doesn't help you with the "foreign" chicks, for some reason they tend to like USC holders only.

Agree or disagree?

very funny and true ..but not so much about GC but rather regarding a reason to emigrate to US at all
lets be frank and admit that US don't offer same benefits to recent immigrants as before in the past in say 50s and 60s even 80s ..looks like those days are over and would never come back
even US born citizens are having very tough time in their country and very hard life (very very hard !!) in general even n the best if time living standard is way lower than in some other 1st world countries ...of course f you come from SA or AFRICA it still might look tad better but if you are from EUROPE ( yes crisis and all) or Asia /Australia I don't think you will find US as a place to be

[-me-]

in general even n the best if time living standard is way lower than in some other 1st world countries ...of course f you come from SA or AFRICA it still might look tad better but if you are from EUROPE ( yes crisis and all) or Asia /Australia I don't think you will find US as a place to be

I have a lot of friends living in Europe. In general, if you are poor and make your living out of welfare and depend on the government benefits a lot, then Europe is like a heaven for you. Contrary, if you work (and work hard), you'd be much better off in the states. Lower taxes, lower prices, much better economy, a way more opportunities...

Personally, I came over here from Canada (not a native born, though) ,but still consider the U.S. is much better for me.
YMMV, of course

[PRAHA]

I have a lot of friends living in Europe. In general, if you are poor and make your living out of welfare and depend on the government benefits a lot, then Europe is like a heaven for you. Contrary, if you work (and work hard), you'd be much better off in the states. Lower taxes, lower prices, much better economy, a way more opportunities...

Personally, I came over here from Canada (not a native born, though) ,but still consider the U.S. is much better for me.
YMMV, of course

..not true ..you can work in Europe and make money any way you want -just one example -rent a truck and go buy fruits in spain and re sell in france (one day trip ) -on every trip you can double your money !
..or say invest 500 000 dollars in slovakia and their government will match your investment capital 1:1 in effect giving you the money to employ their workers
taxes are in general lower than in the US in almost all east european countries and you have so many tax breaks to start a business there which US can not match -again example of slovakia which makes more cars than detroit and has total (as a country ) less people than that US city

one more example ..I as an artist was exempt from taxes up to 40 000 dollars earned during one year in my country -in the US I had to pay 37% on GROSS INCOME

etc

abut costs of living -food is way more expensive in US than europe in general ..food is about 6x more expensive than in eastern europe on average -even tropical fruits grown in us are more expensive in the us than in continental europe
gas is cheaper in us but distance and lack of public transport makes hard for someone with low income in the usa to actually take advantage of it -mobility of us working force has decreased -its a well known fact

to rent a property is also on average way more expensive in us than europe (except say paris/london)
average salary -minimum wage is higher in europe
social programs /health care way superior in europe than in us

residual income higher in europe than us for low income families

individual debt 3-4 times lower in europe than us



hard work as you described in the US does not pay no matter how much you work if you work for someone else (and these days there is no jobs anyways )...only if you work for yourself you might get ahead with lots of luck

[Vorpal]

..not true ..you can work in Europe and make money any way you want -just one example -rent a truck and go buy fruits in spain and re sell in france (one day trip ) -on every trip you can double your money !
..or say invest 500 000 dollars in slovakia and their government will match your investment capital 1:1 in effect giving you the money to employ their workers
taxes are in general lower than in the US in almost all east european countries and you have so many tax breaks to start a business there which US can not match -again example of slovakia which makes more cars than detroit and has total (as a country ) less people than that US city

one more example ..I as an artist was exempt from taxes up to 40 000 dollars earned during one year in my country -in the US I had to pay 37% on GROSS INCOME

etc

abut costs of living -food is way more expensive in US than europe in general ..food is about 6x more expensive than in eastern europe on average -even tropical fruits grown in us are more expensive in the us than in continental europe
gas is cheaper in us but distance and lack of public transport makes hard for someone with low income in the usa to actually take advantage of it -mobility of us working force has decreased -its a well known fact

to rent a property is also on average way more expensive in us than europe (except say paris/london)
average salary -minimum wage is higher in europe
social programs /health care way superior in europe than in us

residual income higher in europe than us for low income families

individual debt 3-4 times lower in europe than us



hard work as you described in the US does not pay no matter how much you work if you work for someone else (and these days there is no jobs anyways )...only if you work for yourself you might get ahead with lots of luck

Based on your statements, the US is a socioeconomic hell. Assuming that you live in the US (after all, why else would you participate in this forum?), why would you leave the greener pastures of Europe to live here?

I've come across many European expatriates who complain about how bad the US is, and how much better everything is in Europe. If this is indeed the case, paradise is only a flight away. Just hop on a plane and go back.

By the way, I am not trying to disparage you in any way, shape, or form. It's just that I always wonder why people leave what they consider to be a better place to live in what they consider to be economically/socially inferior conditions. Other than belonging to the Peace Corps, I can't think of a single reason why.

[cafeconleche]

All of this depends on what type of work you do, and which part of the country or continent you are in. I've heard arguments about Europe and the US that are both convincing, so I'm sure the answer is not as easy as everyone thinks.

[TheRealCanadian]

one more example ..I as an artist was exempt from taxes up to 40 000 dollars earned during one year in my country -in the US I had to pay 37% on GROSS INCOME

This is merely proof that whoever does your taxes is an idiot, or it's untrue. Your comments about food are quite interesting; I've found food in the US to be cheaper than Canada and FAR cheaper than anywhere in Europe.

I don't disagree that it is better to be poor in Europe than America. Then again, I didn't come here to be poor.

[cafeconleche]

Shit food is cheap in the States, but even here in Amsterdam, where thing are not always that cheap, decent groceries aren't that bad. When I was in PRAHA and other places in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Slovenia, they were even cheaper.

If you want high fructose corn syrup, the USA is the best place to be. Otherwise, you're going to have to pay a little more, especially in the cities.

[-me-]

..not true ..you can work in Europe and make money any way you want -just one example -rent a truck and go buy fruits in spain and re sell in france (one day trip ) -on every trip you can double your money !

Get a truck, go to Mexico, buy it there, sell in U.S. You will be MUCH better off.

..or say invest 500 000 dollars in slovakia and their government will match your investment capital 1:1 in effect giving you the money to employ their workers

LOL. I was born and lived in Eastern Europe. I can tell you plenty of stories, how you will end up, trying to do business... In short, you don't have "ties", you are toast.

taxes are in general lower than in the US in almost all east european countries

Yeah... Tell Germans about it... Or Frenches. They'll rip their asses laughing. Well, there is an exception though... Greece... Wanna start business there?


Ok, tired to argue. You and I live on different planets.

[PRAHA]

Get a truck, go to Mexico, buy it there, sell in U.S. You will be MUCH better off.

LOL. I was born and lived in Eastern Europe. I can tell you plenty of stories, how you will end up, trying to do business... In short, you don't have "ties", you are toast.
Yeah... Tell Germans about it... Or Frenches. They'll rip their asses laughing. Well, there is an exception though... Greece... Wanna start business there?


Ok, tired to argue. You and I live on different planets.

ok I live by offering investors opportunities to invest and do business in EE
my clients are not connected or have any "ties" in EE

I found opportunity for a american client in Hungary -we had same talks as Im having with some forum members here -he was very very skeptical to invest money in Hungary citing problems with "mafia" not being "connected " or not knowing the language etc..he feared that he would lose all of his money just by putting in the bank there (lol)
after loosing money on ALL of his business in the US for 3 straight years finally he came around and after 9 moths of negotiations he finally took my advise and invested money in one heavy crane (100 tons ) -we bought it in germany and within 2 weeks he started a business in Hungary ( south east )..he is making now around 1500 euros a day just by renting it out - his insurance is 10X less than in the US ,work force (2 employees ) cost 4X less than in the US and he GOT NON SECURED LOAN FROM SMALL BUSINESS ADM IN HUNGARY to but 2 MORE CRANES and employ another 8 people + TAX BREAK FOR 5 YEARS !!-find that kind of deal in the US if you can !!
basically THEY CAME TO HIM AND MADE AN OFFER FOR A LOAN !!
now hes ONLY REGRET is that he did not start the whole thing earlier
second story is about a investor from INDIA ..almost the same thing but this client was well educated and traveled around EUROPE and studied for a year in GERMANY so it did not took much to convince him to give it a shoot and do business in EE
he originaly wanted to splash almost 700 000 dollars on some franchise crap in US (subway and such )
we went to slovenia and within a moth he started small manufacture of hunting rifles -investment was only about 80 000 dollars ;;to cut a long a story short -he is now exporting those rifles to US with clean profit of 150 000 dollars a year

I have tons of stories mike that ..EE has changed my friend since you lived there
bad things are slowly but surely fading away ...

[PRAHA]

Get a truck, go to Mexico, buy it there, sell in U.S. You will be MUCH better off.

LOL. I was born and lived in Eastern Europe. I can tell you plenty of stories, how you will end up, trying to do business... In short, you don't have "ties", you are toast.
Yeah... Tell Germans about it... Or Frenches. They'll rip their asses laughing. Well, there is an exception though... Greece... Wanna start business there?


Ok, tired to argue. You and I live on different planets.

Im also from EE and I know what you talking about ..but things did change in the last decade or so ..is not like the "old days" ..even in Romania and Bulgaria ..screws are tighter now ..its not so easy to extort or bribe at whim anymore or to have "ties" just so you can do business

regarding taxes ..I said EE not France or Germany -but anyways even if they do pay high taxes THEY GOT SO MUCH BACK -FREE EDUCATION just ONE THING they have -and I'm not taking about some crappy US style "college " but serious technical /science college and full 4-5 years studies with masters studies

about shipping fruits or anything else edible from mexico -we both knows its impossible to pull that one off because of various US regulations which prohibit such "ventures" ...so I don't know why you said it would be better than shipping fruits from spain to france when its in fact impossible to do so at the first place

food os cheaper in EE from 4-10 times than in the US and at least half the price than in FRANCE/GERMANY

for example 1 litter of milk in US is around 90 cent to 1.50 (depends of brand ) in france as low as 0.60 CENTS -in GERMANY as low as 0.45 cents

12 eggs in the US is around 2.50-4.50 dollars
in GERMANY around 1.50 dollars
in france as low as 0.90 CENTS

loaf of bread is around 2 dollars in FRANCE or GERMANY ..in the US AROUND 3.50 -7 DOLLARS

I can go for long like this

US food prices I can even compare with EE food prices ..as I said its just plain crazy how much is more expensive in US than EE..and EE in general HAS A VERY LOW FOOD PRODUCTIVITY than US and VERY HIGH COST OF LAND CULTIVATION NOT TO EVEN CALCULATE GAS PRICES WHICH ARE DOUBLE IN EE THAN US ..ALSO FARM SUBSIDIES ARE 3 TIMES HIGHER IN US THAN EE and still FOOD IS CHEAPER ..I mean use your head .

about GREECE ....dont forget that GREECE has only 10 million people -even if you calculate all the population of the countries who are facing severe economic problems in europe (spain/ireland /portugal) total combines population fot hose countries is only about 56 million people -in total far less than part of US population who is receiving food stamps or some other kind of welfare
their total economic loss is less than 2 trillion dollars (still high ) but you have to compare that to 16 trillion US gap
it does not look that bad ...

[Vorpal]

12 eggs in the US is around 2.50-4.50 dollars
in GERMANY around 1.50 dollars
in france as low as 0.90 CENTS

I paid $1.29 for a dozen eggs yesterday, and this was at a local convenience store. Supermarket prices would be significantly lower. Mind you, I live in NYC, where food prices are considerably higher than elsewhere in the US. The prices you've quoted are most likely for organic eggs. If you're paying that for ordinary eggs, you're being hosed.

A loaf of bread for $3.50 - $7.00? Where are you getting these numbers??? Are we talking gourmet bread?

[Jackolantern]

US food prices I can even compare with EE food prices ..as I said its just plain crazy how much is more expensive in US than EE..and EE in general HAS A VERY LOW FOOD PRODUCTIVITY than US and VERY HIGH COST OF LAND CULTIVATION NOT TO EVEN CALCULATE GAS PRICES WHICH ARE DOUBLE IN EE THAN US ..ALSO FARM SUBSIDIES ARE 3 TIMES HIGHER IN US THAN EE and still FOOD IS CHEAPER ..I mean use your head .

US food subsidies are oddly designed to increase prices, not lower them. The US generally subsidizes farmers by buying up large quantities of crops at artificially high prices, or paying farmers to burn crops or to NOT farm on available land in order to decrease the supply -- lower supply, higher price.

Whereas other countries that subsidize farms tend to do it in ways that decrease the production costs for farmers, like interest-free loans or subsidizing equipment purchases, and the farmers can then pass those savings on to consumers.

[-me-]

Im also from EE

Czech, I guess?

and I know what you talking about ..but things did change in the last decade or so ..is not like the "old days" ..even in Romania and Bulgaria ..screws are tighter now ..its not so easy to extort or bribe at whim anymore or to have "ties" just so you can do business

You've just proved my point. The fact that situation changed from terrible to bad does not make much difference when compared to the U.S.

regarding taxes ..I said EE not France or Germany -but anyways even if they do pay high taxes THEY GOT SO MUCH BACK -FREE EDUCATION just ONE THING they have -and I'm not taking about some crappy US style "college " but serious technical /science college and full 4-5 years studies with masters studies

Cool. Let me ask you this. Why the Europeans go to the U.S. colleges, then? Instead of using the free option in the home countries? Just curious.

about shipping fruits or anything else edible from mexico -we both knows its impossible to pull that one off because of various US regulations which prohibit such "ventures" ...so I don't know why you said it would be better than shipping fruits from spain to france when its in fact impossible to do so at the first place

Try and do a reality check. Come over to any border state, go to a grocery store and check all Made In labels in the Fresh Produce department. I can pretty much guarantee you, that Made in Mexico will be on almost everything, except may be one section, with a proud banner - Proudly grown in .... (fill in the state name). So, don't tell me it's impossible. It's absolutely possible... Again, do the reality check.
(yes, I live in one of those states, two hours from the border).

food os cheaper in EE from 4-10 times than in the US

Mind to compare the salaries as well?

and at least half the price than in FRANCE/GERMANY

It's qute pointless to pick a couple of examples and make such statements. Would you mind comparing the entire picture. Just for starters - gas prices, taxes, cloth...
Otherwise, there is no point to discuss it.

for example 1 litter of milk in US is around 90 cent to 1.50 (depends of brand ) in france as low as 0.60 CENTS -in GERMANY as low as 0.45 cents

two gallon jars for $5+ tax. Do the math.

12 eggs in the US is around 2.50-4.50 dollars

$4.50 is a top for organic. Regular is about $1.00-$1.50 Buy it in bulk and get even a better price.

loaf of bread is around 2 dollars in FRANCE or GERMANY ..in the US AROUND 3.50 -7 DOLLARS

hand made with love. LOL
Regular is a way cheaper.

I can go for long like this

so far, I have seen nothing.

US food prices I can even compare with EE food prices

boring...

about GREECE ....dont forget that GREECE has only 10 million people -even if you calculate all the population of the countries who are facing severe economic problems in europe (spain/ireland /portugal) total combines population fot hose countries is only about 56 million people -in total far less than part of US population who is receiving food stamps or some other kind of welfare
their total economic loss is less than 2 trillion dollars (still high ) but you have to compare that to 16 trillion US gap
it does not look that bad ...

Sure, it doesn't. They have election this week. Some experts say , the euro will not survive this summer. But it does not look that bad... Or does it?

[PRAHA]

Czech, I guess?
You've just proved my point. The fact that situation changed from terrible to bad does not make much difference when compared to the U.S.

Cool. Let me ask you this. Why the Europeans go to the U.S. colleges, then? Instead of using the free option in the home countries? Just curious.

Try and do a reality check. Come over to any border state, go to a grocery store and check all Made In labels in the Fresh Produce department. I can pretty much guarantee you, that Made in Mexico will be on almost everything, except may be one section, with a proud banner - Proudly grown in .... (fill in the state name). So, don't tell me it's impossible. It's absolutely possible... Again, do the reality check.
(yes, I live in one of those states, two hours from the border).


Mind to compare the salaries as well?
It's qute pointless to pick a couple of examples and make such statements. Would you mind comparing the entire picture. Just for starters - gas prices, taxes, cloth...
Otherwise, there is no point to discuss it.
two gallon jars for $5+ tax. Do the math.
$4.50 is a top for organic. Regular is about $1.00-$1.50 Buy it in bulk and get even a better price.

hand made with love. LOL
Regular is a way cheaper.
so far, I have seen nothing.
boring...
Sure, it doesn't. They have election this week. Some experts say , the euro will not survive this summer. But it does not look that bad... Or does it?

europeans going to US colleges mostly got free studies trough some programs
I think almost 70% of them got some sort of grants from US gov.
and I think (read somewhere) that almost 99% is studying less than 3 years in US versus full time studies (4-5 years in Europe) and mostly they take "business/marketing/management " faculties -means nothing productive
anyways numbers of students from EU are in decline last 5 years or so in the US -I think they compromise less than 10% of total foreign students i US at the moment

about EU food prices ..its a fact that food is cheaper in EUROPE and way cheaper in EE
even in UK food is cheaper than US ..no point to argues about that ..you know it true and I know you know .

about Greece ..I dont think they gonna fall out of euro zone so it won't be any downside for anyone who would like to do business there -I would only recommend that they should stick with tourism or shipping /transport -both of those are solid based industries which are growing even during crisis

about mexican products -reality check would be on the border when you try to import mexican food to US -it will be very brief and painful experience -your haul will be tossed into dumpster and your fined on the spot
I mean come one you know that there is a monopoly for everything in US -there is big players in place already -if you individually try to import food from mexico to US you need a tons pf permits and licence (average waiting period 6 months )+ bond+ insurance + certifacates from both you and your suppliers in mexico (also years to obtain )..in Europe you don't need all of that -you are in business if you have a truck and some cash

about EE I share some of your grudge ..I left for similar reason but now I do business there with no problems and no ties to anyone and my current business is based on that -I sway investors from US to EE ...I got idea on this forum as a matter of facts ..lots of people thought that I'm crazy or something but I'm going strong for a second year with many more prospect clients than I can handle ..

[TheRealCanadian]

about EU food prices ..its a fact that food is cheaper in EUROPE and way cheaper in EE even in UK food is cheaper than US ..no point to argues about that ..you know it true and I know you know .

I am impressed by your utter absence of any supporting evidence besides your own opinion. Please tell me that this isn't caused by the awesome "free" education you received in Europe.

[-me-]

PRAHA,
I was talking about the actual official licensed business, not about smugling a box of tomatoes in the trunk.

As for the rest of the discussion... You have your opinion, I have mine. You try and compare the highest prices in the U.S. with the lowest prices in Europe on a very select set of foods. It's quite pointless, my friend. Same applies to the educational standards.. Of course, you can get one isolated case and apply it on the entire "go away from free education" phenomenon. But, it does not prove your point, as you understand.

Having said that, I leave you in piece in your dream world.

P.S. God bless Greece and euro... I hope they will do well... also, Spain, Italy, Ireland and so on....

[PRAHA]

PRAHA,
I was talking about the actual official licensed business, not about smugling a box of tomatoes in the trunk.

As for the rest of the discussion... You have your opinion, I have mine. You try and compare the highest prices in the U.S. with the lowest prices in Europe on a very select set of foods. It's quite pointless, my friend. Same applies to the educational standards.. Of course, you can get one isolated case and apply it on the entire "go away from free education" phenomenon. But, it does not prove your point, as you understand.

Having said that, I leave you in piece in your dream world.

P.S. God bless Greece and euro... I hope they will do well... also, Spain, Italy, Ireland and so on....

it proves all of my "opinions" 100% I dont even know why we argue when you know I'm right on every point but for your own reason you decide to ignore the facts ..but thats your problem
anyways I make my business by advising people where and how to invest money and I have tons of interest from recent immigrants as well as US born investors
(and US is no the place to invest at the moment -period )
we not gonna even go there .
smuggling one box of tomatoes is not what I had in mind and you know very well what I'm talking about and if you are from EE than you know how its been done and what kind of business it is and how much you can make and how fast and that you dont need permits due to "open borders" policies in EU and different prices
its not a "one box" operation for sure but rather TIR truck affairs -

my food prices quoted for US are from local SAFEWAY which are pretty low by US standards
about free education -well what can I tell you ..Im sending my son next year to study in Germany
..I just dont see the point to pay thousands of dollars for some sub standard schooling or to saddle him with debt which he is gonna be repaying for decades

about my taxes-I paid 37% in the US for not being incorporated and being self employed -its like that -I was shocked too and went to local IRS office more than few times -they went with me over every point and at the end I had to pay ...taxes are not that high compared to germany and france but the problem is that in germany and france they have minimum (living ) wages and those categories of (middle class earners) pay actually far less taxes than US citizens in the same earning bracket
only if you cross over 3000 euros per month in those countries you might get hit with 35% tax but again if you have a family of 3 or 4 it goes down to 27% or if your spouse is not working goes down even further
of course in EE as as I told you I paid taxes only twice -I was exempt because government is stimulating self employment (in my case 5 years not tax on income + they gave me some money for tools and direct stimulus of around 3000 euros -one time help)

if you really think about starting a business in europe I can give some points
there is a for example opportunity to buy credit card processing company in EE for not so much money
or to start bicycle rental business in EE capitals(local gov. financial help)
or make boilers (yes there is market for domestic industrial products -unlike in the US )which could be started with gov. grants and very low bank loans and very small amount of money

if you dont like to be tied to one place you can trave to one europen festival to another and transport tourists or revelers (35major festivals in the period of may-august)+around 100+ local or ethno festivals or sell something (like t shirts for example)-gain unlike US no permits or insurances or licence is needed

about IRELAND/GREECE/SPAIN etc . ....well those countries are in dire straits but there are other countries which are doing rather well in the EU ..so they would pull them out ..but in the US all the states are equally bad -economy wise so there is a nobody to pull them out (china mybe ?-lol)..
also there is one very lucky break for EU ..EU is still group of countries and not an"union" so there is always more opinions and more ideas than in "federal" two party state where there is difference between those two are marginal

[nwctzn]

Yeah yeah, the EU is great! Let's see when Germany, the main driving force of the EU, and German citizens will have enough of bailing out other EU members and pull the plug. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. Then we will see if the ex-EU members or the USA is in better shape.

[PRAHA]

Yeah yeah, the EU is great! Let's see when Germany, the main driving force of the EU, and German citizens will have enough of bailing out other EU members and pull the plug. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. Then we will see if the ex-EU members or the USA is in better shape.

well I dont think you will see that in your life (BTW germany is not "bailing "out rest of europe but rather buying it ..big difference -if you were from europe you will know whats going on ...about better shape -us or eu ..I dont think there will be winners of this "contest"...I think us is in worse position for very simple reason -6 times bigger debt than eu ,not enough political ideas or politicians with vision or just plain responsibility .also outsourced manufacture to the tune of 10-12 millions jobs ..and around 13 million illegal and worse of all rising gas prices which would cripple mobility of the working population ...
you have 1/5 of the nation on some sort of welfare ..and depleted SS funds..how log you think it could go like this ..and politicians are saying that taxes still wont go up !!...