Changed Jobs before Green Card

[aybak123]

This is my situation..I was laid off 3 months after applying for my green card (I485), I immediately found a new job in the same field, I recieved my Green Card 9 months later. Now it's time to apply for my citizenship and I'm worried that my employment history will come up in the interview. Did any one here went through some thing similar to this? Do they pay much attention to the employment history in the interview? It's been now 5 years and 4 months since I got the green card, will they ask about where I was working before the 5 years listed on the application? Does INS really know where I was working in the past? Any feedback is deeply appreciated.

[mario123]

Good questions.

I finished my interview 3 weeks ago and this very issue came up - about how long I was with the co. that sponsored my GC, when I left (exact dates), why I left, etc. I was pretty scared, but in the end, I was recommended for approval and passed the interview.

The strange thing is that I have owned (and been employed by) my own co. since 2000 and in the n400, they only want 5 yr. emp. history. So, even though I only listed MyCo. in that section, the IO started writing down my previous emp. hist. with the sponsoring GC co. and prior in red ink right under the sect. where I wrote my 5 yr. history..... she even kept asking me to give the EXACT date I left the sponsoring co. (which was about 5 months after getting my GC). I also had to show a bunch of other docs. - luckily I had it all with me except W2's from 8 yrs.ago - which she asked for!!

Not to scare you, but in your case, I think that's going to be a big issue -because the red flag that goes off for them is that this was not a legitimate marriage betw. you and the emp. Then the issue of tax returns comes up (which BTW, I was asked to show). Ofcourse, if you have proof - like a termination letter or whatever, then you might be fine. They have a list of some black listed companies from the IRS that my IO was looking through - I think they were mostly Indian consulting firms that have a history or are under IRS/CIS watch for fraudulent employment/immigration issues. The IO even told me that later in my interview when we were making some light conversation

Also understand that some of the questioning and how deep they want to dig depends totally on the IO/DAO, but in most case like yours & mine, GC-through-employment is pretty standard and they have a set list of questions to ask. One thing to remember is to never lie about anything. Never, never, never. They have all your history on file - from the very day you made contact with the USCIS or set foot on U.S. soil. The only stuff that they *might* not have in front of them during the interview is your IRS files, but even then, IO told me (kind of winking and smiling) that they could "easily get it" if they want to double check. So, again, if they get the feeling you are pulling the wool over their eyes, they'll probably put your interview in pending and ask you to send documentation (tax returns, W2's, etc.) and then ofcourse they'll double check it.

I hope I didn't scare you - just telling you what I went through and what I think would have happened had I not been truthful and/or shown all docs.

[boatbod]

I think it all depends upon the interpretation of AC21 rules. You may care to read more about it here: http://immigration.about.com/library.../aa090903b.htm

By the looks of it, since your I-485 process took longer than 180 days, you would have been eligible for AC21 benefits despite the fact you actually changed jobs prior to the 180 day boundary.

[gc_guru]

Mario,

I really doubt if the IO's have any case when AC21 is applied.
What if one forgets the exact employment dates?

How can the IO distinguish employee leaving versus employer laying off? Will they blacklist companies that layoff engineers who they sponser for I 485?

There is nothing in AC21 that says you have to inform INS in order to use AC21 .
I really wonder if anyone over-used AC21( or under-reported usage) & got into trouble at citizenship?

Thanks
GC_GURU

[aybak123]

Guys,

How will the IO know the exact dates? I mean is it better to try to use AC21 or just not report the job change in the application? Do IOs have any thing in your files that tells themwhen you change a job...The only thing they have infront of them is the N-400 application...can't we assume it's just better if they don't know about the job chnge?... I had a lawyer hinting today to me that maybe the immigration shouldn't know about the exact dates of the job change...thoughts?

Mario....what documents did the IO ask you for when they found out that you changed your job?

[mario123]

Mario,
I really doubt if the IO's have any case when AC21 is applied.

Are you joking? There are many ways and means by which they can apply the AC21. It's a pretty ambiguous law and the only thing that USCIS has to do is show intent, ie. intent by the applicant to not honor the pact of sponsorship, which is the whole reason for sponsorship in the first place! Leaving within 1-2 months or even earlier is a clear indication that you never intended to stay with the company. Same thing as the infamous "moral terpitude" phrase - the USCS says that you are barred from becoming a citz. if you kill, rape, etc. You could also be denied citizenship if you stole a hot dog.

What if one forgets the exact employment dates?

Huh?? Are you serious? Have you filled out an N400 or even a GC appl., or any employment appl. for that matter? Have you seen the sections on "days outside the country" and employment history? If you haven't, they are all based on START and END dates ==> Exact dates. I think you also need to put exact dates on your resume ..... unless you leave the start/end dates blank

How can the IO distinguish employee leaving versus employer laying off?

That's why they have an interview; that's why you are under oath; that's why you are not supposed to lie under any circumstances or intentionally/unintenionally leave any material fact out of your appl; that's why they ask you those questions duing the interview. In case you didn't read my whole post above, I had it happen to me. And yes, they do question you more if you left the co. right after getting your GC.

Will they blacklist companies that layoff engineers who they sponser for I 485?
GC_GURU

uuummm...... not sure, but they sure as heck know (through the IRS, labor dept., etc.) about companies who are known to hire workers and under pay them and/or provide H1's/GC's through fraudulent means. Ever wonder why/how certain companies get raided? I agree that there are many companies that get away with fraud, but USCIS does have a few that they know of. I'm not 100% sure, but my IO got pretty friendly with me towards the end of the interview and told me that.

[aybak123]

Mario...what documents did the IO ask for when she found out that you changed your job 5 months after the GC?

[boatbod]

How will the IO know the exact dates? I mean is it better to try to use AC21 or just not report the job change in the application? Do IOs have any thing in your files that tells themwhen you change a job...The only thing they have infront of them is the N-400 application...can't we assume it's just better if they don't know about the job chnge?... I had a lawyer hinting today to me that maybe the immigration shouldn't know about the exact dates of the job change...thoughts?

The IO will know the exact dates because YOU WILL TELL HIM on the N-400. Failure to do so would mean you were lying to obtain an immigration benefit - just about the worst thing you could do.

Also, the IO will have your ENTIRE immigration file in front of him when he conducts the interview. This means they already know who sponsored your GC, and will specifically be looking for that employment history on your N-400.

If your lawyer is seriously suggesting you should omit specific information requested on the N-400, I think you may want to consider finding a better (more honest) lawyer. AC21 is not something to be scared of, providing you did not intentionally abuse the system.

[mario123]

Mario...what documents did the IO ask for when she found out that you changed your job 5 months after the GC?

1) Last 5 yrs. tax returns.
Luckily I had them on me! Just my own copies - not official ones from the IRS. I wasn't planning on taking them bec. the IL did not ask for them at all. I actually told the IO that and I think she got a little miffed . At any rate, I pulled them all out and gave them to her. She literally went through all 10-15 pgs. of EACH RETURN and made comments about my income and HOW MUCH TAX I paid!!! She then went and made copies of all 5 yrs. returns!!

2) Proof that I paid taxes while I was employed by GCSponsoringCo.
Wanted W2's. I didn't have it on me because I left the co. in 1998, but I told her that I had all docs. at home and could get them, but by that time in the interview, the IO was pretty comfortable with me and I could tell she knew I was honest and not playing games. I can't tell you how important that is. I think it literally saved my case from being thrown in pending status (and being asked to bring the W2's) vs. believing me and recommending my case for approval!

3) Exact dates I was with GCSponsoringCo.
She was counter checking that with the date I got my GC. IO then put that down in red ink on my N400 under my employment hist. even though it only asks for 5 yr. history. Go figure!

4) Grilled on why I left GCSponsoringCo.
Told IO that I started my own business. IO then looked at tax returns AGAIN and employment hist. on N400 and started checking dates to see if it coincided with what I was saying!! IO was literally writing dates down and asking me why I was 2-3 months off here and there! By that time I was frustrated and told her that she could see my resume (which I didn't have on me )

[Flydog]

Wow! W2s from 1998. The IRS doesn't require any tax stuff be kept beyond 7 years (I think). Several folks have told me that I should destroy docs that are no longer needed. Who would think to bring that to an interview.

It's interesting to see that interviews can be either a complete breeze or absolute torture.

[mario123]

Wow! W2s from 1998. The IRS doesn't require any tax stuff be kept beyond 7 years (I think). Several folks have told me that I should destroy docs that are no longer needed. Who would think to bring that to an interview.

It's interesting to see that interviews can be either a complete breeze or absolute torture.

Yup, thats' how it goes!

And mind you, I still think my interview was a breeze - at the end IO was impressed w/me - probably because I was well prepared and had all docs., but I think more so because she knew I was honest and not fumbling around.

Moral of the story: don't lie, withold info. or make stuff up to CYA, because they are trained to look for such stuff and consequently question you in such a way that if you do lie, you will only dig yourself a nice big hole.......... which the IO will be happy to put you into

[aybak123]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your feedback. The lawyer I consulted simply said that I can't use AC21 since I was laid off just 3 months after I-485was submitted and that you can use it only after 6 months. He honestly didn't leave me with any valid option; either say that I was laid off after recieving the green card ( and the IO will just take my word for it like every one else who leavse the old job 6 months-1 year after the GC) or simply never apply for citizenship.

[koolvik7]

aybak123,

You are not alone on this forum who is facing this delimna. I had a job change two weeks after getting the GC (it was a mutual agreement between me and my employer). Not sure if it will help you calm a little to know that:

• I had worked for an Employer (H1B) for about 3 years during which they had filed for my GC
• During the GC process, my employer let me work for other firms on H1B for about 2 years for different employers (INS has all that infomration with that too with different job classification)
• I returned to my Employer (on a lower salary) and I was 'interviewed' during my GC approval
• My Employer and I parted ways in very good terms two weeks after my GC approval

My assumption is that my case is more complex than yours but I have still taken a chance with N-400. Of course I am concerned how things will turn up as it can go either way. I believe that there are complex cases than mine and they do get approvals.... so am more optimistic about my luck (and the USCIS officer). Let's just see........

[goodjob123]

Some of my friends got their NIW approved while in school, by the time they got their GC, most of them worked in the industry in the same field already. Only one changed field several months after GC. All of them got their citizenship without any problem.

Any one has similar experience? If you change field after GC through NIW, will INS give you more trouble or less trouble comparing change job after regular employment GC? What's the worst can happen? I know somebody searched the legal cases database, no greencard was revoked because of job changes.

[koolvik7]

I know somebody searched the legal cases database, no greencard was revoked because of job changes.

Well that is a positive thing, would be great to see if people were "approved' for N-400 if they changed their jobs in couple of weeks to <3 months after getting the GC.

Does anyone know of any case or experience?

[boatbod]

The lawyer I consulted simply said that I can't use AC21 since I was laid off just 3 months after I-485was submitted and that you can use it only after 6 months.

I do believe he was wrong to say that. Provided your overall I-485 approval took longer than 180 days, you are covered by AC21 irrespective of whether you ever worked for the sponsoring company prior to receiving GC approval. The reason this works is because the GC is issued based upon a future job offer.

http://immigration.about.com/library.../aa012902b.htm
http://immigration.about.com/library.../aa090903b.htm

[aybak123]

Koolvik,

I see you just applied for N-400, did you only list the new job (the one you started 2 weeks after getting the GC) in the employment history? It will be interesting to see what happens in your interview...

any guys who didn't have the employer who sponsered their GC in the employment history section on N-400?

Thanks Guys

[koolvik7]

aybak123,

I applied 5 years + 2 months after getting the GC and have only listed the new companies (not the employer who sponsored my GC petition). Yes, interview is going to be an interesting one for sue.

Good luck to you, when are you thinking of applying.

[aybak123]

Koolvik7,

It's been 5 years and 4 months now and I want to do apply ASAP, but at the same time I don't want to risk my GC. Which city do u live in? I'm in Chicago

Hopeflly your interview will be OK...just please keep us posted

[koolvik7]

I am in Nothern Virgina, Washington DO. I would be surprised that there is no one in the forum who had gone through an Employment based GC process and ended up leaving soon after (mutual or not). It would be great to find someone with almost similar situation who was successfully able to get the Citizenship approval. Anyone?

Or perhaps I am indeed in a unique situation

[diku123]

I have applied N400 for my self and my wife (PD 12/27/2006) and both received FP notice and appeared for FP on the same date. Now, my wife received interview letter but I haven't yet (over 3 weeks now). Might be stuck in "name check"? I have also changed job - 2.5 months after GC.
Does anyone know what will happen to her case? Will she be got approved evenif I am primary on the Green Card? What kind of questions will she be asked?

Mario123 --- Can you please share your wife's interview? I noticed that your wife's interview was scheduled few weeks ahead of yours. Was she asked your employment related questions? Was she granted oath date (you have marked ?? in your post). Were you with your wife at the time of her interview?
I will appreciate anyone who has similar situation and can post reply.

[mant0478]

It depends on whether the issue comes up during the interview.

A friend of mine had his interview earlier this week and he changed his job after 1 month of 485 approval but the issue never came up. I am sure he could have defended it since he is again working for the sponsoring co. and the company he shifted to was a sister co. of the sponsoring company.

Well that is a positive thing, would be great to see if people were "approved' for N-400 if they changed their jobs in couple of weeks to <3 months after getting the GC.

Does anyone know of any case or experience?

[waitingforins2]

Mario,

Your posts are very informative and scary too

OK here is my situation:
1. I worked for my sponsoring co from 1997 sept to 2002 Nov. I got my GC in apr 2002. so I worked for my co for 6.5 months after I got my GC. They let me go after that because my project ended. I do not have letter from them saying they laid me off but do have a letter from them stating I worked for them for so and so dates. I filed for unemployment after that.

My question is I do not have a letter stating they laid me off. What would I need so that they will be satisfied.

Thanks in advance for your help

[mario123]

Mario,

Your posts are very informative and scary too

OK here is my situation:
1. I worked for my sponsoring co from 1997 sept to 2002 Nov. I got my GC in apr 2002. so I worked for my co for 6.5 months after I got my GC. They let me go after that because my project ended. I do not have letter from them saying they laid me off but do have a letter from them stating I worked for them for so and so dates. I filed for unemployment after that.

My question is I do not have a letter stating they laid me off. What would I need so that they will be satisfied.

Thanks in advance for your help

I think you are probably okay as far as not having a letter - just make sure you have PROOF of payroll & tax filings while you were with that co. In my case IO wanted W2's & tax returns . For all other stuff, just refer to my previous posts on this thread - all the docs. that they asked for I pretty much explained: Tax returns (last 5 yrs.), W2's and exact dates of emp, birth certificate, all passports incl. expired ones that show EXACT dep/entry dates into/out of the U.S. Also remember, I think my case was a little different (although I'm not sure how different) in that I own my own co. and have been self employed since I left the GCSponsoringCo. back in 1998...... but if I were you, I'd wouldn't leave any stone unturned.

[waitingforins2]

Mario,

Thanks for your prompt response.


I have
1. W2 for 6 yrs
2. Copies of my tax returns for 6 yrs(also I have ordered tax transcripts)
3. Birth certificate
4. letter from employer stating when I worked with them.
5. unemployment stubs
6. 1099 from unemployment for 2003..thats when I received checks
7. Passports old/new(even plane tickets
8. Going to get court dispositions for traffic tickets

I am only nervous about this employment thing. I have not yet applied I will be eligible in april but getting information together before I jump in.

My congratulations to you on getting through and hope that you will get your oath letter soon.

Regards

[diku123]

Mario,

Can you please reply on my earlier quote which I have reproduced here again:
I have applied N400 for my self and my wife (PD 12/27/2006) and both received FP notice and appeared for FP on the same date. Now, my wife received interview letter but I haven't yet (over 3 weeks now). Might be stuck in "name check"? I have also changed job - 2.5 months after GC.
Does anyone know what will happen to her case? Will she be got approved evenif I am primary on the Green Card? What kind of questions will she be asked?

Mario123 --- Can you please share your wife's interview? I noticed that your wife's interview was scheduled few weeks ahead of yours. Was she asked your employment related questions? Was she granted oath date (you have marked ?? in your post). Were you with your wife at the time of her interview?
I will appreciate anyone who has similar situation and can post reply.
thanks in advance,

[compass]

I have applied N400 for my self and my wife (PD 12/27/2006) and both received FP notice and appeared for FP on the same date.
Will she be got approved evenif I am primary on the Green Card?

You both applied for citizenship... your wife's case will be processed separately, so she may be approved earlier, even more chance for this since females name check may take less time... does not matter anymore that you were 'primary' on green card...

[mario123]

Mario,

Can you please reply on my earlier quote which I have reproduced here again:
I have applied N400 for my self and my wife (PD 12/27/2006) and both received FP notice and appeared for FP on the same date. Now, my wife received interview letter but I haven't yet (over 3 weeks now). Might be stuck in "name check"? I have also changed job - 2.5 months after GC.
Does anyone know what will happen to her case? Will she be got approved evenif I am primary on the Green Card? What kind of questions will she be asked?

Mario123 --- Can you please share your wife's interview? I noticed that your wife's interview was scheduled few weeks ahead of yours. Was she asked your employment related questions? Was she granted oath date (you have marked ?? in your post). Were you with your wife at the time of her interview?
I will appreciate anyone who has similar situation and can post reply.
thanks in advance,

First of all, compass is 100&#37; correct: yours and your wife's are 2 separate apps., even if you mailed them together

I was told by the IO several times that women in most cases don't even go through a name check! And I guess the fact that my wife's interview was almost a whole month before mine proves that. Her interview was EXTREMELY smooth. Part of that is because she has not worked for the last 5 yrs., has NEVER had any traffic tickets or brushes with the law, etc. Infact the DAO was joking with her at the end of her int. saying "you have never even been pulled over ?". He was surprised. As far as questioning on the GC stuff: Well, she was questioned quite a bit about HOW she got HER GC, how long she's been in the U.S., what I was doing, how I got MY GC, etc., but nothing about my length of time with the GC co. No, she has not gotten an oath letter yet - I think San Antonio is just freakin' slow with oaths!

As far as you not receiving an int. date, well.......... hunker down and be prepared for a long wait. The sec. checks are elaborate and depend on where you were born, your nationality and name. Needless to say, if you are Muslim, Chinese, or east European it's going to be a long wait.

[diku123]

Thanks to Compass and Mario123 for your prompt response. I got some hint for my wife's interview.

I understand that I have to be prepared for long wait. I am gathering all the docs for my wife so her interview goes smoothly.

Mario123: Were you there during your wife's interview? (might be waiting somewhere in the room). I just wanted to know whether my presence will be helpful or not on gc related questions. BTW, we will be facing interview in Boston DO.
thanks,

[Ignorantperson]

First of all, compass is 100% correct: yours and your wife's are 2 separate apps., even if you mailed them together

I was told by the IO several times that women in most cases don't even go through a name check! And I guess the fact that my wife's interview was almost a whole month before mine proves that. Her interview was EXTREMELY smooth. Part of that is because she has not worked for the last 5 yrs., has NEVER had any traffic tickets or brushes with the law, etc. Infact the DAO was joking with her at the end of her int. saying "you have never even been pulled over ?". He was surprised. As far as questioning on the GC stuff: Well, she was questioned quite a bit about HOW she got HER GC, how long she's been in the U.S., what I was doing, how I got MY GC, etc., but nothing about my length of time with the GC co. No, she has not gotten an oath letter yet - I think San Antonio is just freakin' slow with oaths!

As far as you not receiving an int. date, well.......... hunker down and be prepared for a long wait. The sec. checks are elaborate and depend on where you were born, your nationality and name. Needless to say, if you are Muslim, Chinese, or east European it's going to be a long wait.

Mario if you don't mind, do you have kids? my thinking is having kids should make the wife's interview go smooth? Am I talking nuts or does it make sense?