3 years degree EB3, 140 at NSC - please advice

[riz_arsh]

We still don't have any posts from individuals on this forum who have used Sheila's evaluation for a 3 year degree as "equivalent to US 4 year Bachelors", applied to I-140 the first time and then successfully received I-140 approval.

Most of the people have used Sheila's evalution only after receiving a I-140 RFE and then replying to the RFE with her evaluation. I am not sure whether we can come to a conclusion that the "3 year degree" to "4 year US Bachelors equivalent" is a worthwhile approach till there is adequate information from individuals who have been successful at getting a I-140 approval the first time.

"Individuals come to these forums, try to get anwsers to their questions but never come back and write how the information helped them address their issues".

[anilt75]

Riz-Arsh,

"Most of the people have used Sheila's evalution only after receiving a I-140 RFE and then replying to the RFE with her evaluation. I am not sure whether we can come to a conclusion that the "3 year degree" to "4 year US Bachelors equivalent" is a worthwhile approach till there is adequate information from individuals who have been successful at getting a I-140 approval the first time."

--True. But when they are issuing RFEs clearly stating that combination of degree and experience or other educational qualifications is not allowed,what other choice do we have?

[riz_arsh]

My point is that when USCIS has not been approving I-140 for individuals using an evaluation based of "combination of degrees+diplomas" the following approach should be the used:

"Before applying I-140 for the first-time get Sheila's evaluation done for "3 year degree" to "4 year US equivalent" and then apply for the I-140".

Maybe NSC or TSC would be willing to accept this evaluation and approve the I-140. Offcourse this advice would not be helpful for those who have already applied for I-140 followed by issues with submiting contradicting evaluations before and after an RFE.

[kumar0102]

Just want to share with you my situation(Today is my happiest day).
My I-140 was filed. My 6 year is going on my I-140 was pending. In the meantime my I-140 got rejected due to 3-Year degree. My case was filed in Nebraska service center.

In the meantime, I got my education evaluation done from degree.com(thru an evaluator Sheila Danzig - 1-800-771-4723), She gave an course by couse evaluation(I have my 3-yr degree in computers) and proved that I have 120+ credits(equivalent of U.S degree) also she gave me an expert opinion. This was submitted to INS immediately as MTR(Memo to re-open)/Appeal. I got my I-140 approved !!! It took five weeks from the date my MTR/Appeal went in to have it approved. Please note, folks who are in the same boat, please remember to do the following

1. Apply for MTR/Appeal within 30 days from the date of rejection(please be strict with this time line, even a day delayed will take the case to AAO, which takes like 15 months for a decision, and the decision will mostly likely be negative if you go to AAO).

2. Do NOT send evaluation from two evaluators, I have heard from my lawyer that those cases have been denied stating the reason that evaluations are not exactly similar.

3. Have a Subject by Subject evaluation to prove that you have atleast 120 credits(equivalent of US bachelors degree).

If you do the above three you have 90-99% of chances that your case is approved.

With regards
Kumar

[anilt75]

Just want to share with you my situation(Today is my happiest day).
My I-140 was filed. My 6 year is going on my I-140 was pending. In the meantime my I-140 got rejected due to 3-Year degree. My case was filed in Nebraska service center.

In the meantime, I got my education evaluation done from degree.com(thru an evaluator Sheila Danzig - 1-800-771-4723), She gave an course by couse evaluation(I have my 3-yr degree in computers) and proved that I have 120+ credits(equivalent of U.S degree) also she gave me an expert opinion. This was submitted to INS immediately as MTR(Memo to re-open)/Appeal. I got my I-140 approved !!! It took five weeks from the date my MTR/Appeal went in to have it approved. Please note, folks who are in the same boat, please remember to do the following

1. Apply for MTR/Appeal within 30 days from the date of rejection(please be strict with this time line, even a day delayed will take the case to AAO, which takes like 15 months for a decision, and the decision will mostly likely be negative if you go to AAO).

2. Do NOT send evaluation from two evaluators, I have heard from my lawyer that those cases have been denied stating the reason that evaluations are not exactly similar.

3. Have a Subject by Subject evaluation to prove that you have atleast 120 credits(equivalent of US bachelors degree).

If you do the above three you have 90-99% of chances that your case is approved.

With regards
Kumar

--Congratulations! I know how it feels. Thanks for posting some hints and good luck with I-485.

[july140]

All,

Please read the following link carefully. Karthick_Kris has posted this thread on 30th Sep 2005 about his 140 approval after he filed with Sheila's evaluation. (I know personally his 140 got approved)

http://boards.immigrationportal.com/...light=karthick

Now someone called kumar0102 just copied the same thread and altered little bit and claimed that his 140 was approved as of 04/13/2006. I have very strong feeling on kumar0102's reliability on his approval. (I do think there is no one called kumar0202). It looks like an advertisement for Sheila Danzig

I'll leave this to readers assumption.


3 Yr Degree RFE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just want to share with you my situation(Today is my happiest day).
My I-140 was filed. My 6 year is going on my I-140 was pending. In the meantime my I-140 got rejected due to 3-Year degree. My case was filed in Nebraska service center.

In the meantime, I got my education evaluation done from degree.com(thru an evaluator Sheila Danzig - 1-800-771-4723), She gave an course by couse evaluation(I have my 3-yr degree in computers) and proved that I have 120+ credits(equivalent of U.S degree) also she gave me an expert opinion. This was submitted to INS immediately as MTR(Memo to re-open)/Appeal. I got my I-140 approved !!! It took five weeks from the date my MTR/Appeal went in to have it approved. Please note, folks who are in the same boat, please remember to do the following

1. Apply for MTR/Appeal within 30 days from the date of rejection(please be strict with this time line, even a day delayed will take the case to AAO, which takes like 15 months for a decision, and the decision will mostly likely be negative if you go to AAO).

2. Do NOT send evaluation from two evaluators, I have heard from my lawyer that those cases have been denied stating the reason that evaluations are not exactly similar.

3. Have a Subject by Subject evaluation to prove that you have atleast 120 credits(equivalent of US bachelors degree).

If you do the above three you have 90-99% of chances that your case is approved.

With regards
Kumar

[stillwaiiting]

July140,

Good catch!

[stillwaiiting]

unitednations, are you trying to say something?

[july140]

Unitednations,

I was concerned about the false posting. That post Obviously looks like an advertisement if someone posts an altered version of Karthick's thread in favor of Sheila. I know personally two guys got their 140 approved after they used Sheila's evaluation but it does not mean that she is the only one solution for everything. I agree its our lawyers fault.

Posted by: UnitedNations
I don't understand why there is harping about Danzig.

[Mahendra_t]

Hello guys

I have B.A. (Arts) + M.C.M.( Masters 2years) + 2 years Diploma from Aptech.

My LC got approved recently from DBEC and in the process of applying I140.

In Section 14 it says 4 Bachelor's Degree or equivalent
Major Field of study : Computer Science or Engineering or related fields.

I have education evaluation done for MCM from IEEES Inc based in WI.

This eval conclude the following.

<My Name > has the equivalent of a Bachelor or Science degree in computer and information technology and master of computer and information technology degree from a regionally accredited university in united states.



Do you guys think I will any problem / REF in my 140 ??

Let me know
Thanks


Mahendra_t

[gc_madness]

Anilt75 / United Nations - Thanks for your lively discussion and tips on this issue!

Lawyer is admitting that there is a problem without owning up to the fact that it is their mistake. According to them, PERM applications are "notoriously glitchy" and risky and requesting an amendment to a pending LC to add the
"equivalency/combination" clauses is possible but there is "no guarantee" that it will be accepted by the DOL.

Makes me mad to think for all the money that they have charged the company so far, they are basically telling me that there is a problem that is going to be difficult to resolve. What makes it worse is that once the I-140 is denied, it may not be possible to file a fresh LC if there are not many months remaining on the H1, preventing an additional years extension. Sometimes I wonder if these attorneys deliberately screw up things so that they can gouge some more money and continue what seems to be an endless process.

Also, what locus standi does a bureaucrat in the NSC have to override the DOL when it comes to labor requirements ? If the DOL has certified that the applicant is not compromising any american jobs and is adequately qualified , how can the BCIS overrule that determination ?

I can understand issuing RFE's for ability to pay and other stuff, but the qualifications of the candidate are determined at the DOL stage. I am amazed that the AILA has not made an issue of this and taken it up strongly. It is clear abuse of discretionary power. If Penn State University where I am doing my Masters (part-time) feels my 3-yr bachelors and MA from India is equal to a 4yr US bachelors and good enough for admission, why should the BCIS, which to my mind does not have the expertise to judge educational qualifications, feel different ? Its just ridiculous .

[shivab]

gc_madness

Its pure business logic. They charge you before they deliver any service. They already made their money. "The sun is always shining in the form of aspiring immigrant community". They just are making their hay.

If the case gets screwed up, mostly because of nother aspiring para-legal, there is no loss to the attorney. Its you who is at loss - whether its your screwed up career/future or money. Its like double edged sword you face.

Like many other legal disclaimers written in zillion pages of small print, attorney help in GC process sometimes is like invsible print!!

Blame it on yourself for not having gone thoroughly through laws earlier.

Its depressing & frustrating but statistically very realistic.

Regards
Shiva

Anilt75 / United Nations - Thanks for your lively discussion and tips on this issue!

Lawyer is admitting that there is a problem without owning up to the fact that it is their mistake. According to them, PERM applications are "notoriously glitchy" and risky and requesting an amendment to a pending LC to add the
"equivalency/combination" clauses is possible but there is "no guarantee" that it will be accepted by the DOL.

Makes me mad to think for all the money that they have charged the company so far, they are basically telling me that there is a problem that is going to be difficult to resolve. What makes it worse is that once the I-140 is denied, it may not be possible to file a fresh LC if there are not many months remaining on the H1, preventing an additional years extension. Sometimes I wonder if these attorneys deliberately screw up things so that they can gouge some more money and continue what seems to be an endless process.

Also, what locus standi does a bureaucrat in the NSC have to override the DOL when it comes to labor requirements ? If the DOL has certified that the applicant is not compromising any american jobs and is adequately qualified , how can the BCIS overrule that determination ?

I can understand issuing RFE's for ability to pay and other stuff, but the qualifications of the candidate are determined at the DOL stage. I am amazed that the AILA has not made an issue of this and taken it up strongly. It is clear abuse of discretionary power. If Penn State University where I am doing my Masters (part-time) feels my 3-yr bachelors and MA from India is equal to a 4yr US bachelors and good enough for admission, why should the BCIS, which to my mind does not have the expertise to judge educational qualifications, feel different ? Its just ridiculous .

[anilt75]

"What makes it worse is that once the I-140 is denied, it may not be possible to file a fresh LC if there are not many months remaining on the H1, preventing an additional years extension."

--It may be possible to buy 18 months or so(approximate estimate at present. Not sure about the future) by pursuing the case all the way through MTR/"Appeals" court process.

Double check with an attorney if one can still hold and transfer h1b within that time frame(while pending at the appeals court). If so, [PERM + 140 ] within 18 months is possible. H1B extensions can follow till cows come home!

Just make sure that the new job description's basic educational requirement is at "Associate degree" level by US standards(You have to be able to do 2+2=4 without the help of organizer to be at bachelor's -)

Good luck

[hanumansri]

Guys,

I want to share good news, finally I got a magic email from USCIS that my i - 140 is approved at TSC service center.Here are my details.

1. My first I 140 filed from NSC using substitute labor was denied in Jan'03. Reason:Educationcational Evaluations.

2.Denied from AAO after one year.

3. Recently my orignal labor was approved from backlog center, this time I did my evaluation from Shiela Danzig, she did excellent job, she actually evaluated my 3 years of Polytechnic(Met Engg) equivalent to US BS, total credits 122.5.

4. She Also Evaluated my AMIIM( Associate Memebr of Indian Institute of metals) equivalent to Master in Met engg.

5. With that my attorney applied i - 140 at TSC on 31st March and today I got the email from USCIS for approval.

Actually I must thank to Unitednationas, who advised me to get my evaluation done thru Shiela.Guys this is not an advertisement for Shiela or Unitednation but its true success story

Thanks

[expeditegc]

hanumansri,

Let me be the first to congratulate you and good luck with I-485.

So, there is some hope for folks with 3 year degree.

[lex_ind]

Gurus,

I stumbled across this thread, and the reason I am posting here is because I am in same boat as you guys are. I've 3-year Bachelors degree from India and a 3-year diploma.

After reading the issue with the 3-year degree I sent an email to my company's lawyer sharing my concerns. She replied back saying that my labor certification was prepared having the fact that I have a three year degree in mind. She also mentioned that the law firm have provided a formula on the application stating that the three year of academic studies plus two years of experience would be acceptable to the employer as an alternative to the Bachelor's Degree requirement.

I have file copy of the ETA-750 Part B. But, I don't have access to ETA-750 Part A. I've to go through my company's bureaucratic hurdles to get that. In the meantime I've couple of questions:
1. Does the formula on the application (3yr academic studies + 2yr experience) helps?
2. If I want to be more cautious and proactive, what are my options?

Thanks,
Lex

[kukuchaku]

Some kind of smart move to get more business to Danzing..
This is what I beleive, What you guys think ?

Just want to share with you my situation(Today is my happiest day).
My I-140 was filed. My 6 year is going on my I-140 was pending. In the meantime my I-140 got rejected due to 3-Year degree. My case was filed in Nebraska service center.

In the meantime, I got my education evaluation done from degree.com(thru an evaluator Sheila Danzig - 1-800-771-4723), She gave an course by couse evaluation(I have my 3-yr degree in computers) and proved that I have 120+ credits(equivalent of U.S degree) also she gave me an expert opinion. This was submitted to INS immediately as MTR(Memo to re-open)/Appeal. I got my I-140 approved !!! It took five weeks from the date my MTR/Appeal went in to have it approved. Please note, folks who are in the same boat, please remember to do the following

1. Apply for MTR/Appeal within 30 days from the date of rejection(please be strict with this time line, even a day delayed will take the case to AAO, which takes like 15 months for a decision, and the decision will mostly likely be negative if you go to AAO).

2. Do NOT send evaluation from two evaluators, I have heard from my lawyer that those cases have been denied stating the reason that evaluations are not exactly similar.

3. Have a Subject by Subject evaluation to prove that you have atleast 120 credits(equivalent of US bachelors degree).

If you do the above th
ree you have 90-99% of chances that your case is approved.

With regards
Kumar

[anilt75]

Gurus,

I stumbled across this thread, and the reason I am posting here is because I am in same boat as you guys are. I've 3-year Bachelors degree from India and a 3-year diploma.

After reading the issue with the 3-year degree I sent an email to my company's lawyer sharing my concerns. She replied back saying that my labor certification was prepared having the fact that I have a three year degree in mind. She also mentioned that the law firm have provided a formula on the application stating that the three year of academic studies plus two years of experience would be acceptable to the employer as an alternative to the Bachelor's Degree requirement.

I have file copy of the ETA-750 Part B. But, I don't have access to ETA-750 Part A. I've to go through my company's bureaucratic hurdles to get that. In the meantime I've couple of questions:
1. Does the formula on the application (3yr academic studies + 2yr experience) helps?
2. If I want to be more cautious and proactive, what are my options?

Thanks,
Lex

--That formula may not work all the time. Get hold of you attorney and check the job requirement as mentioned in the labor certification. You may have to try different approach than combining 3-year degree + experience = 4 year degree.

[hanumansri]

Kukuchaku,

When you first came to USA, you believed this country and the people here, so you must believe if some one is saying something just thought of sharing good news among the guys who are running into similar situation. It’s up to the individual whether you follow the similar processes or not. Also there is no guarantee that if the evaluation may work for every one.

Once again thanks for UNitednations for providing valuable suggestions in this forum.

Thanks

[kukuchaku]

It looks like you are hurt by message.

You are correct hope is good. Even now I am getting my evaluation done form Sheila Danzing.

Thanks united nations for your valuable advice.

Kukuchaku,

When you first came to USA, you believed this country and the people here, so you must believe if some one is saying something just thought of sharing good news among the guys who are running into similar situation. It’s up to the individual whether you follow the similar processes or not. Also there is no guarantee that if the evaluation may work for every one.

Once again thanks for UNitednations for providing valuable suggestions in this forum.

Thanks

[lex_ind]

Gurus,

I stumbled across this thread, and the reason I am posting here is because I am in same boat as you guys are. I've 3-year Bachelors degree from India and a 3-year diploma.

After reading the issue with the 3-year degree I sent an email to my company's lawyer sharing my concerns. She replied back saying that my labor certification was prepared having the fact that I have a three year degree in mind. She also mentioned that the law firm have provided a formula on the application stating that the three year of academic studies plus two years of experience would be acceptable to the employer as an alternative to the Bachelor's Degree requirement.

I have file copy of the ETA-750 Part B. But, I don't have access to ETA-750 Part A. I've to go through my company's bureaucratic hurdles to get that. In the meantime I've couple of questions:
1. Does the formula on the application (3yr academic studies + 2yr experience) helps?
2. If I want to be more cautious and proactive, what are my options?

Thanks,
Lex

Thank you Anilt75 for the response.

I just got reply from lawyer about line no. 14 and 15 of ETA 750 Part A. Here is verbiage that they have used:

*Employer will accept three years of university level studies plus two
years of progressively responsible work experience as equivalent to a
Bachelor's degree..

Gurus,

I stumbled across this thread, and the reason I am posting here is because I am in same boat as you guys are. I've 3-year Bachelors degree from India and a 3-year diploma.

After reading the issue with the 3-year degree I sent an email to my company's lawyer sharing my concerns. She replied back saying that my labor certification was prepared having the fact that I have a three year degree in mind. She also mentioned that the law firm have provided a formula on the application stating that the three year of academic studies plus two years of experience would be acceptable to the employer as an alternative to the Bachelor's Degree requirement.

I have file copy of the ETA-750 Part B. But, I don't have access to ETA-750 Part A. I've to go through my company's bureaucratic hurdles to get that. In the meantime I've couple of questions:
1. Does the formula on the application (3yr academic studies + 2yr experience) helps?
2. If I want to be more cautious and proactive, what are my options?

Thanks,
Lex

[riz_arsh]

Please avoid using services of from www.foreignconsultants.com for any degree evaluations (3 and 4 years). They ask you to fax across all degree transcripts and then don't respond back at all despite numerous phone calls and voice-mails.

I am surprised and bewildered how they are in business without providing even decent customer service. I would strongly recommed staying away from such degree evaluation companies. Please let me know if anybody has used the services of www.foreignconsultants.com and had similar experiences.

[anilt75]

Lex,

Thank you Anilt75 for the response.

I just got reply from lawyer about line no. 14 and 15 of ETA 750 Part A. Here is verbiage that they have used:

*Employer will accept three years of university level studies plus two
years of progressively responsible work experience as equivalent to a
Bachelor's degree..

--It's nicely worded job requirement by your attorney. However, consider the 2 types of RFE's people have been getting:

1) Case of combining experience and other certificates to equate to BS degree and mentioning it in the special requirements section of ETA form(using the verbiage similar to yours):

RFE (my own interpretation).

"Unlike H1B criterion, combination of experience or other certificates to show equivalency toward B.S degree is not allowed. Degree must be from a single source(one certificate from one institution) and it must be equivalent to 4-year Bachelor's degree as mentioned in ETA form."


2) Case of combining experience and other certificates to equate to B.S degree and not mentioning anything in the special requirements:

RFE (my own interpretation):

"USCIS acknowledges candidate's credentials. However, it is not specifically mentioned in the ETA form that the combination of experience and other eduational certificates would be acceptable for the given job requirement."

Based on few stories that I have read so far, I have observed this inconsistent pattern of RFE's wrt 3-year degrees at I-140 level.

Its very difficult to say which option could best work for you. USCIS doesnt know what they want and makes it even worse with such RFEs as mentioned above.

Since it is already mentioned in the ETA form that you are combining education and experience, IMO, you have to just try and see what happens. As a backup option, you might want to start GC process again with some other employer. DO NOT TRY TO EQUATE ANYTHING TO A BACHELOR'S DEGREE THIS TIME. It is possible to get GC based on education alone or experience alone or combination of both.But never attempt to equate sum of credentials to one credential. Although smartly worded, this is the "mistake" your lawyer apparently made.

To make you feel better. Cases like yours, I have seen almost 3 out of 5 cases getting approved. Some on the first go. Some after the RFE.

You may still want to consider other options by exploring all the resources possible.

Good luck.

[lex_ind]

AnilT75:

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately I don't have option of starting the labor process again as I am on my 7th year extension. Even if I had that option, I would run into the same problem during the I-140 stage. Bottom line, I think I just have to wait and see what happens. My labor is still not approved, so it's long way before they adjudicate on educational requirements in labor.

I asked my company's lawyer to provide me Line no. 14 of the ETA-750A. Here is the verbiage they have used:

Bachelor's Degree or equivalent in Computer Science, Engineering (Any), Math, Business Administration, Information Technology and four years of experience as a Consultant or Analyst.

As I listed in my previous post, Line no. 15 is as follows:

*Employer will accept three years of university level studies plus two years of progressively responsible work experience as equivalent to a Bachelor's degree.

Lex

[anilt75]

Lex,

"Unfortunately I don't have option of starting the labor process again as I am on my 7th year extension. "

--I do understand your situation. I am in the same boat. Like I said in the previous post, I have seen some cases get approved after an RFE. Column 14 and 15 had exact same words.

Although there is nothing much you can do. Dont loose hopes.

(Remember one thing though.It is possible to start GC process even while you are in 7th year.)

--Good luck.

[riz_arsh]

Be careful with slander/libel.

This is h-1b season and many of the evaluators are extremely busy evaluating degrees for h-1b purposes. Just imagine the exposure of the immigration boards for this issue (3 year vs 4 year degree) and the volume of people who may have contacted them.

If someone took your money and didn't do anything then that is a problem.

---They charge huge sums for a simple evaluation, don't reply for weeks about what's happening with the status of the application, then tell they cannot evaluate your documents and finally don't refund the money. This is a shady company and one needs to stay away. They lack the professionalism displayed by some other evaluation companies.

[hvscorpio27]

AnilT75:

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately I don't have option of starting the labor process again as I am on my 7th year extension. Even if I had that option, I would run into the same problem during the I-140 stage. Bottom line, I think I just have to wait and see what happens. My labor is still not approved, so it's long way before they adjudicate on educational requirements in labor.

I asked my company's lawyer to provide me Line no. 14 of the ETA-750A. Here is the verbiage they have used:

Bachelor's Degree or equivalent in Computer Science, Engineering (Any), Math, Business Administration, Information Technology and four years of experience as a Consultant or Analyst.

As I listed in my previous post, Line no. 15 is as follows:

*Employer will accept three years of university level studies plus two years of progressively responsible work experience as equivalent to a Bachelor's degree.

Lex

---
I think you should be fine. Mine got approved last week. I have BSc(Math) degree with 8 years of exp.

[StarSpangledGC]

I guess my case is of the "desperate" kind...
My LC is pending in Philly with BS+0 requirements. I have 2 years degrees + 7 years experience at the time of filing. Lawyers put no mention whatsoever in box 15 of the ETA-750...
Plus, I understand that as of 04/01/06, all I-140 go through NSC "the terrible"...

Does anybody know anyone in this case who got 140 approved? All that after over 4 years of waiting...

[austin_desi]

Hello All,

My employer filed my PERM and now it is approved. I have 3 yrs comp science degree from India and no other degrees other than 10 yrs of experience. After i read all about this 3 year degree issues, I am sacred about 140. What should I do? I do not know how my employer mentioned in the PERM application. They are not giving me that info, they just said PERM is approved so 140 will be too. What are all the risks involved in 140 stage. Please guys let me know.

Thanks

[riz_arsh]

You can contact Sheila Denzig at www.thedegreepeople.com and request your 3 year degree to be evaluated to 4 year US Bachelors equivalent. There is a good possibility that NSC would accept this evaluation and approve your I-140.

NSC is highly unpreditable in the manner of I-140 approvals and maybe the above mentioned evaluation may work from you.