3 years degree EB3, 140 at NSC - please advice

[maansi28]

Yes, not a Sheila victim; just wanted to check on the credential for the degree people...

M

[GY123]

hi maansi28,


what was there in col. 14 and 15 in your labour. Also what is the wordings of the RFE.

Thanks

[anilt75]

this i got from murthy Forum, another victom of sheila danzing. this was posted just today
http://murthyforum.atinfopop.com/4/O...2&m=1861062831
Maansi 28

I am in deep trouble and am posting my issue hoping someone will kindly be able to offer some advice (sorry for the long mail...)

I am a BS (3 yr course) and an MS (3 yr MCA). My 140 was filed under EB2 (at NSC), and it got rejected due to the fact that my 3 ye degree is not equivalent to a US Bachelors. I saw some similar posts on this forum and I was wondering if someone has any advice, please.
My lawyer is now saying that:
1) We get our educational evaluation done from 'thedegreepeople'. He says I stand a chance that with a good/new evaluation my degree will be equated to a 4 yr US bachelors.
2) We are also filing in parallel for an EB3 labor. The problem is that my 6 yrs expire on Jan 1st, 2007 (altho' the extension I got was till Feb 10th, 2007), so we will try to use a subsituted labor if possible.

My questions are, please:
A) Does the above plan (points 1 and 2) sound ok? Is there anything else that could be done?
B) If I use substituted labor, then I cannot avail of the 140 premium for EB3..is that right?
C) Is my end date to leave US Jan 1st or Feb 10th?
D) I read somewhere that you can stay on even after H1 expires if your labor/140/GC is in progress, for a period of upto 180 days. Is that true?

I am really stressed out…any help/pointers will be much appreciated…
Thanks
MPosts: 2 | Registered: October 12, 2006

--Go for EB3 by showing BSc( 3yr) + MCA = US Bachelor's. Sheila's evaluation wont change NSC's obscure policy.

Tell your lawyer to take a hike or go fish!!

[shoshanad]

--Go for EB3 by showing BSc( 3yr) + MCA = US Bachelor's. Sheila's evaluation wont change NSC's obscure policy.

Tell your lawyer to take a hike or go fish!!

How does this work when it is still combining and there is no combining for eb3 or eb2 and they sent an rfe for this already.

I do not follow at all. This has been posted here from the Immigration Lawyers conference. "For employment-based immigrant visa purposes (aka green card), the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) will not equate a three-year diploma plus a post-baccalaureate diploma as being the equivalent of a U.S. Bachelor's Degree for either EB-2 or EB-3 classification. Additionally, the USCIS does not accept a combination of academic background and work experience as being the equivalent of a U.S. Bachelor's Degree for "green card" purposes"

[bitu72]

i want to see what RFE u got , for me they did not point to combination of degree as in issuee. if u copy paste the rfe that would help us more to understand and response.

[HunnyZee]

I got my evaluation done by degreepeople based on 13 years of schooling (had a London uni O levels diploma ..considered 11 years..and then 2 yrs of Pakistani HSSC ...similar to indian ) followed my a 3 yr degree in computers...So my case is not like combining two degrees/diplomas but similar to education in uk or euopean countries ..even though my degree is from Pakistan.I am geared towards Eb2 and my lawyer says it should be ok afetr looking at my evaluation . He says UCIS has same olicy on Eb2 and Eb3 regarding combination but based on the info in the forums i disagree with him , since they are linient in eb3 if labour allows combination.

Please advise do you think i have a realistic chance in Eb2 ? or Eb3 is the way to go....my h1b expires end of may 2008, so i have only one chance ...other things are going in my favour like big company,sr position,experience ,pay etc....

[HunnyZee]

I got my evaluation done by degreepeople based on 13 years of schooling (had a London uni O levels diploma ..considered 11 years..and then 2 yrs of Pakistani HSSC ...similar to indian ) followed my a 3 yr degree in computers...So my case is not like combining two degrees/diplomas but similar to education in uk or euopean countries ..even though my degree is from Pakistan.I am geared towards Eb2 and my lawyer says it should be ok afetr looking at my evaluation . He says UCIS has same olicy on Eb2 and Eb3 regarding combination but based on the info in the forums i disagree with him , since they are linient in eb3 if labour allows combination.

Please advise do you think i have a realistic chance in Eb2 ? or Eb3 is the way to go....my h1b expires end of may 2008, so i have only one chance ...other things are going in my favour like big company,sr position,experience ,pay etc....

[A0001]

Maansi,

Please post exact wording in denial Notice and ETA part A- column 14 wording?
Don't worry - You have number of options if you want to continue as H1 worker.



Thanks,

A) Does the above plan (points 1 and 2) sound ok? Is there anything else that could be done?
B) If I use substituted labor, then I cannot avail of the 140 premium for EB3..is that right?
C) Is my end date to leave US Jan 1st or Feb 10th?
D) I read somewhere that you can stay on even after H1 expires if your labor/140/GC is in progress, for a period of upto 180 days. Is that true?

I am really stressed out…any help/pointers will be much appreciated…
Thanks
M

[Sheila R Danzig]

i want to see what RFE u got , for me they did not point to combination of degree as in issuee. if u copy paste the rfe that would help us more to understand and response.

He had written:
>>I am a BS (3 yr course) and an MS (3 yr MCA). My 140 was filed under EB2 (at NSC), and it got rejected due to the fact that my 3 ye degree is not equivalent to a US Bachelors.<<

I have rarely seen or heard of RFE's for 2 year Masters because it was by a 3 year bachelor's degree, but that does happen.

I have never seen or heard of one for a 3 year masters degree and the lawyers I work with routinely use a simple ($70, document evaluation) for a 3 year Masters for USCIS purposes and we do not evaluate the bachelor's degree without any problems. This could be a first if that in fact was the reason.
Bitu is correct - please copy and paste the RFE.

[maansi28]

First of all, your help, friends, is much appreciated

And Sorry , the "My 140 was filed under EB2 (at NSC), and it got rejected due to the fact that my 3 ye degree is not equivalent to a US Bachelors" was my lawyer's interpretation of the DENIAL (not a RFE)

Below is the copy paste from the DENIAL notice:
---------------------------------------------------------------
This petition, filed on April 25. 2006, seeks ta classify the beneficiary as an immigrant under Section 203(b)(2) of the Immigration and Narionality Act, as amended. That section provides for dle .11ocation of immigrant visas to
quallnea ImmIgrantS wno are memoers of professions holding advanced degrees or who because of their exceptional ability in the sciences, arts, or business. wjl) substantially benefit prospectively the national economy. cultural or educational interests, or welfare of the United States and whose ~crvlces in the !ciencc!', artS, professions, or business a,.., sOllght by an employer in the United States.
The rocord indicates that the petitioner desires the servic~s ofthe beneficiary a, a Project Manager and seeks approval of the petition on the basis of the beneficiary's exceptional ability m the sciences, arts, or business.
Title 8, Code of Federal Reguilltions, Part 204.5(kX2) defines "cxceptionalability in the sciences, arts, or business" as "8 degree of expertise above that ordinarily encountered in the !lciences, artS. or business,"
Title 8. Code of Federal Regulations, Parts 204.5(k)(3Xii) smtts:
To show that the alien is an alien of exceptional ability in the sciences, I\rts, or business1 the petition must be accompanied by at least three of the following:
(A) An official academic record showing that the alien has a degree, diploma, certificate, or similar award from 8 college, univcrsity, school, or other instit\Jtion of learning relating to the area of exceptional ability;
(8) Evidence in the form of letter(s) nom current or fonner employer(s) showing that the alien has at 1~as1 t.cTt years of full-time experience in the occupation for which he/she is being sought;
(C) A license to practice the: profession or certification for a particular profession or occupation: (D) Evidence that the alien has commanded a salary, Of other remuneration for services. which demon~trates exceptional ability;
(E) Evidence of membership in professional associations; or
(F) Evidence of recognition for achievements and significant contributions to the industry Of field by peers, governmental entities, or professional or business organizations.
Section 203(bX2)(C) of the Act states:
Detennination o(Exception81 Ability.--In determining under subparagraph (A) whether an immigrant has cxceptionBlability, the possession of a degree, djploma~ certificate or similar award &om 8 co))ege, univer$ity. school or other institution of learning or a license to practice or certification for a particular profession or occupation shall not by itself be considered sufficient evidence ohuch exceptional ability.
The: Scrvice notes that the submitted educational documeT1ts And educational evaluation indicates that the beneficiary earned a threey years bachelors degree at ***, and a Master of Computer Applications degree ***.

However, the beneficiary's three year bachelor's degree is not equiva1ent to a four year U.S. equivalent bacM1or's degree. The established requirement in the: United States for entry into a Masters program is a 4 year bachelor's degree. Therefore, the Service has determined that the educational evaluator incorrectly evaluated the beneficiary's total education as equivalent to a Masters Degree in Chemistry from an accredited cotlege Of university in the United States.



The burden of proof in these proceedings rests solety with the petitioner. See Matter of Treasure Craft of California, 14 MeN Dec. 190. In this case the petitioner has not sustained that burden.

In view of the above, me petition IS denied.

RlGHT TO APPEAL: If you wish to appcal ."is decision, you may do so. Your Notice of Appeal to the Administrativo Appeals Office (AAO), Form 1-290B, must be filcd with the Nebraska Service Center. P. O. Box 82521, Lincoln, NE 68501-2521. Your Form T-290B must be filed within 30 days from the date of this notice (33 days jf(his notice was received by mail) and be accompRnied by a fee of $385 and" brief or other written statement in gUPport of your appeal. If no appeal is filed within the time allowed. this decision is final. DO!!Q! send your appeal directly to the: Administrative Appeals Office .

---------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what columns 14 and 15 of the labor application say:
). Col 14 SAYS:
Specific skills or other requirements - If submitting by mail, add attachment if necessary. Skills description must begin in this
space
a) Extended Travel required to unanticipated client locations in the USA. b) Any reasonable combination of education, training
and experience is acceptable for the position offered. c) Employer is willing to accept a foreign education degree equivalent in
on of the listed fields of study including a combination of one or more degree or diplomas. d) Must have some related
experience using the following: WinRunner, LoadRunner, Silk/Rational Suite/ Test Director.

Col 15 says:
Does this application involve a job opportunity that includes a combination of occupations?
No

[anilt75]

<i>"c) Employer is willing to accept a foreign education degree equivalent in
on of the listed fields of study including a combination of one or more degree or diplomas."</i>

--One can predict future. But not NSC's inconsistent interpretations.

The trend shows that they are lenient toward accepting combination of degrees (or degree + experience) PROVIDED labor specifies it and the case is pursued under EB3. Not always. But sometimes.

Ofcourse, combining diplomas with 3 year degrees don't stand a chance.

If the statement above (italicized) was used in Labor Application form (Col#14), you still hold a chance to get this case approved in EB3. Combine B.sc + MCA and show it as equivalent to US Degree.

[A0001]

I sent PM.. Please respond - you have more scope for success on this issue.

First of all, your help, friends, is much appreciated

And Sorry , the "My 140 was filed under EB2 (at NSC), and it got rejected due to the fact that my 3 ye degree is not equivalent to a US Bachelors" was my lawyer's interpretation of the DENIAL (not a RFE)

Below is the copy paste from the DENIAL notice:
---------------------------------------------------------------
This petition, filed on April 25. 2006, seeks ta classify the beneficiary as an immigrant under Section 203(b)(2) of the Immigration and Narionality Act, as amended. That section provides for dle .11ocation of immigrant visas to
quallnea ImmIgrantS wno are memoers of professions holding advanced degrees or who because of their exceptional ability in the sciences, arts, or business. wjl) substantially benefit prospectively the national economy. cultural or educational interests, or welfare of the United States and whose ~crvlces in the !ciencc!', artS, professions, or business a,.., sOllght by an employer in the United States.
The rocord indicates that the petitioner desires the servic~s ofthe beneficiary a, a Project Manager and seeks approval of the petition on the basis of the beneficiary's exceptional ability m the sciences, arts, or business.
Title 8, Code of Federal Reguilltions, Part 204.5(kX2) defines "cxceptionalability in the sciences, arts, or business" as "8 degree of expertise above that ordinarily encountered in the !lciences, artS. or business,"
Title 8. Code of Federal Regulations, Parts 204.5(k)(3Xii) smtts:
To show that the alien is an alien of exceptional ability in the sciences, I\rts, or business1 the petition must be accompanied by at least three of the following:
(A) An official academic record showing that the alien has a degree, diploma, certificate, or similar award from 8 college, univcrsity, school, or other instit\Jtion of learning relating to the area of exceptional ability;
(8) Evidence in the form of letter(s) nom current or fonner employer(s) showing that the alien has at 1~as1 t.cTt years of full-time experience in the occupation for which he/she is being sought;
(C) A license to practice the: profession or certification for a particular profession or occupation: (D) Evidence that the alien has commanded a salary, Of other remuneration for services. which demon~trates exceptional ability;
(E) Evidence of membership in professional associations; or
(F) Evidence of recognition for achievements and significant contributions to the industry Of field by peers, governmental entities, or professional or business organizations.
Section 203(bX2)(C) of the Act states:
Detennination o(Exception81 Ability.--In determining under subparagraph (A) whether an immigrant has cxceptionBlability, the possession of a degree, djploma~ certificate or similar award &om 8 co))ege, univer$ity. school or other institution of learning or a license to practice or certification for a particular profession or occupation shall not by itself be considered sufficient evidence ohuch exceptional ability.
The: Scrvice notes that the submitted educational documeT1ts And educational evaluation indicates that the beneficiary earned a threey years bachelors degree at ***, and a Master of Computer Applications degree ***.

However, the beneficiary's three year bachelor's degree is not equiva1ent to a four year U.S. equivalent bacM1or's degree. The established requirement in the: United States for entry into a Masters program is a 4 year bachelor's degree. Therefore, the Service has determined that the educational evaluator incorrectly evaluated the beneficiary's total education as equivalent to a Masters Degree in Chemistry from an accredited cotlege Of university in the United States.



The burden of proof in these proceedings rests solety with the petitioner. See Matter of Treasure Craft of California, 14 MeN Dec. 190. In this case the petitioner has not sustained that burden.

In view of the above, me petition IS denied.

RlGHT TO APPEAL: If you wish to appcal ."is decision, you may do so. Your Notice of Appeal to the Administrativo Appeals Office (AAO), Form 1-290B, must be filcd with the Nebraska Service Center. P. O. Box 82521, Lincoln, NE 68501-2521. Your Form T-290B must be filed within 30 days from the date of this notice (33 days jf(his notice was received by mail) and be accompRnied by a fee of $385 and" brief or other written statement in gUPport of your appeal. If no appeal is filed within the time allowed. this decision is final. DO!!Q! send your appeal directly to the: Administrative Appeals Office .

---------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what columns 14 and 15 of the labor application say:
). Col 14 SAYS:
Specific skills or other requirements - If submitting by mail, add attachment if necessary. Skills description must begin in this
space
a) Extended Travel required to unanticipated client locations in the USA. b) Any reasonable combination of education, training
and experience is acceptable for the position offered. c) Employer is willing to accept a foreign education degree equivalent in
on of the listed fields of study including a combination of one or more degree or diplomas. d) Must have some related
experience using the following: WinRunner, LoadRunner, Silk/Rational Suite/ Test Director.

Col 15 says:
Does this application involve a job opportunity that includes a combination of occupations?
No

[maansi28]

Anilt75:
Thanks for the input -- "If the statement above (italicized) was used in Labor Application form (Col#14), you still hold a chance to get this case approved in EB3. Combine B.sc + MCA and show it as equivalent to US Degree"

This looks like a way to go, but the problem is that my H1 6 yrs expire on Jan 1 2007 (my labor was filed <365 days before, so I can't get the 1-yr extn).
In that case, can I use my EB2 approved labor for filing the EB3? (I am basically trying to avoid the 45 days priod, labor approval, etc time). And can I avail of the premium processing on the 140 for this EB3 filing?


ALSO -- ETA says in section H (4) that Education minimum level required is “Masters”).


much thanks
Maansi

[bitu72]

here is the RFE i got, col 14 and 15 did not say combination allowed.
it said bachelor and field of study as engg/computer sc/information sc.




here goes my RFE -----




Please submit evidence which establishes that the beneficiary holds a bachelor’s degree in engineering or
information systems or computer science as specified by your labor certification. Your evidence establishes that
he has education equivalent to such a degree in computer science, and for H-1B purposes this is sufficient; but
your labor certification requires the degree itself. Your evidence does not establish that the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX is an institution accredited to award bachelor’s-level degrees.
If you submit evidence wkich establishes that the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX is an institution
accredited to award bachelor’s-level degrees, please submit a copy of the beneficiary’s transcripts from that
institution.
When you marl your reponse to this Office, please mark the envelope with a blue stripe on the end
and write PREMIUM RFE on the envelope and marl to:
NEBRASICA. SERVICE CENTER
P.O. BOX 87103
LINCOLN, NE 68501-7103
If you choose to mail your response by courier to the Center’s physical address, please write
Premium Processing, P.O. Box 87103 on both sides of the envelop~

[anilt75]

"ALSO -- ETA says in section H (4) that Education minimum level required is “Masters”). "

--Oh! The issue is more of master's degree equivalency. Not Bachelor's. Convincing NSC on [MCA + 3 Year degree = US Masters] is very difficult.

"This looks like a way to go, but the problem is that my H1 6 yrs expire on Jan 1 2007 (my labor was filed <365 days before, so I can't get the 1-yr extn)."

--I guess you can try to recapture the period you stayed outside the country.That could buy sometime on H1b. See if your labor gets 365 days old by then. If that doesnt work for you, then I think you can(not sure) use the pre-approved labor to get 7th year h1b.

"In that case, can I use my EB2 approved labor for filing the EB3? (I am basically trying to avoid the 45 days priod, labor approval, etc time)."

--Yes. You can use the approved labor to file another I-140 under EB3. But here is the issue now. If the minimum education required for the job is mentioned as Masters degree in your labor, then regardless of EB2/EB3 category, it is very difficult to convince NSC that your MCA + BSC = Masters in US. Starting a new labor with Bachelor's degree strategy appears to be the only way out.

"And can I avail of the premium processing on the 140 for this EB3 filing?"

--I am not sure if you can do that. You have one I-140 already pending at NSC. You are using the same labor to file another I-140. Not sure if they allow premium processing for such cases. You can check with your attorney.

Good luck.