Sm1smom
Super Moderator
There are past Ghana specific Threads in the forum with DV interview experiences listed. You just have to search for those Threads and go through them to find some of the experiences.
DV 2017 Selectees from Ghana
There are past Ghana specific Threads in the forum with DV interview experiences listed. You just have to search for those Threads and go through them to find some of the experiences.
Britsimon
Super Moderator
There are also cases in Ghana that appear to be genuine that are refused incorrectly. I have seen clear documentary evidence of at least one such case and had several more where refusals seem unjust based on seemingly genuine stories.
However, I have also seen plenty of cases where Ghanaians don't seem to understand the "normal" standards of what is a genuine document, or truthful statement and so on. The boundaries are constantly tested. The normal assumption is that there is a "solution" to everything (the miracles you speak of). Given that as a background it is hardly surprising that Accra are quick to refuse - because the credibility of evidence is normally doubted.
Culturally there are a couple of other things I have noticed in my time helping people from Ghana and other countries. Ghanaians seem to prefer to talk to other Ghanaians about solving their problems, and Ghanaians (especially young men) are easily offended by criticisms of their country. These two cultural realities (not completely unique to Ghana of course) unfortunately tend to reinforce the status quo - so the high level of refusals will continue for the foreseeable future - and to be clear - the refusals are in the 70/80% range - which is horrific.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
^^ the point about denial of valid cases is taken, but of course it's related to the prevalent real problems. This makes it especially important for Ghanaians to ensure that all their documents etc are absolutely in order.
I believe that a large part of denials is also due to the rotten system of "agents", especially those who enter on behalf of people without their being aware if it and then convincing them they can get a visa - we've seen a few of those here.
(The "miracles" I was referring to was actually the praying bit, that the lord will save them from being denied etc)
I believe that a large part of denials is also due to the rotten system of "agents", especially those who enter on behalf of people without their being aware if it and then convincing them they can get a visa - we've seen a few of those here.
(The "miracles" I was referring to was actually the praying bit, that the lord will save them from being denied etc)
caesarre
Member
Quoting Britsimon.."the refusals are between 70% to 80% range in Ghana"
which means if about 3,176 are selected and even all of them decide to apply...mathematically only about 636 will be given visa.Then too baad and unfair.Because what this implies is that your documents have to be 150% complete.100% complete cant give you the visa in Ghana compared to other places
which means if about 3,176 are selected and even all of them decide to apply...mathematically only about 636 will be given visa.Then too baad and unfair.Because what this implies is that your documents have to be 150% complete.100% complete cant give you the visa in Ghana compared to other places
Lucid
Active Member
Quite some funny analysis. If you want to use Maths, then what it implies is that if 3176 Ghanaians apply then statistically only 636 people will submit genuine documentation or not present fake marriages or will be truthful.
Lucid
Active Member
Agreed I have read many of those myself. But for dv2016 there's only a handful. Don't remember seeing more than 5 of those
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Precisely, Lucid. Caesarre, it is not "unfair", it is a reflection of problems with the applications, in most instances. As britsimon has noted it is unfair on some people - these are the genuine applicants that are denied, as Ghana sees so many fraudulent or incorrect applications that they no longer seem to give people the benefit of the doubt. But if your documents are 100% correct you will get a visa. After all the refusal rate is not 100%...
I would just add, some of the refusals are due to incorrect entry data on the eDV. No matter how genuine your documents, if there are name or birthdate errors on the eDV the visa will be refused as they will not be able to match the genuine documents to the information on the eDV.
caesarre
Member
Case example.. you know your date of birth because your parents told you. and thats what you have been using on your every document but the birth certificate is missing.You just went for a new One from birth and death department after realising you have won the lottery.
What is your case on this One members help?
What is your case on this One members help?
Lucid
Active Member
I get where you're coming from. The consul in this case might think you're attempting to 'match' maybe incorrect edv records with a newly made up one. Normally your old birth certificate should have a unique entry number. So when it gets missing all you need to do is make them search for this record, and then you'll have a certificate but with the old entry number. Not a new certificate with a new entry number. I know in Ghana this is very normal, but the west could see this as fraud.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
If it's fairly common not to have a birth certificate before winning then the consulate will be aware of it. Your passport also has your date of birth on it of course anyway, which presumably matches the eDV and birth certficate. So there's no reason this should be a reason for denial. However the more common problem - at least that we have seen reported here on the forum - is that the date of birth on the eDV is incorrect. Then we have the situation where some people try to get a visa anyway by using a genuine birth certificate with the correct date, or trying to use a fraudulent one. It is both of these situations that would lead to denial.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Birth date is on passport too though so either one has to "fake" both documents or fake neither.
Sm1smom
Super Moderator
And that's traceable to what Simon already stated in one of his posts:
The Ghanian and Kenyan Threads were quite vibrant and informative in the past, until people started drifting away and forming Whatsapp groups of their own - just like somebody already suggested on this particular Thread. They don't seem to realize the treasure trove and quality of help available to them in open forums such as this compared to a closed cultural group, often managed by someone with little to no DV experience.
In addition to that are the silent lurkers who do not seem to understand the concept of 'pay it forward' - they basically silently read all that's available without making any contribution that others may benefit from in the future.
not really, not all ghanaians have birthcert but know their date of birth, so the fact thats it is new does not mean it not an original document,
Sm1smom
Super Moderator
It's not inconceivable though that one might have never had a passport prior to the DV selection though which means the passport that will be presented will be newly issued too.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Also make absolutely sure you read the "reciprocity" page for Ghana on the DV selectee website, at this link https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/fees/reciprocity-by-country/GH.html
This is what it says about birth certificates, as an example. It does highlight the unreliability of the documents, unfortunately. I would think that if an applicant can get some of the "secondary evidence" they refer to, it would help support the case.
Available. As of February 1, 2011, only originals of the computer generated certified copies of birth certificates should be recognized and accepted for business and travel documentation.
Persons over 18 years of age must apply in person at the appropriate Registrar's Office. Records of registrations more than one year old are deposited with the Office of the Registrar of Births and Deaths for Ghana, C/O Ministry of Local Government, P.O. Box M.270, Accra, Ghana. If the applicant resides outside of Ghana, the person applying must present a written authorization from the individual whose birth certificate is being requested. Persons under 18 years of age must have their parent or guardian obtain the certificate. There may be a fee for this service.
Note: The majority of registrations are not made at the time of birth, and often no registration is made until an individual requires a birth certificate for immigration purposes. Registrations not made within one year of an individual's birth are not reliable evidence of relationship, since registration, including late registration, may often be accomplished upon demand, with little or no supporting documentation required.
This is what it says about birth certificates, as an example. It does highlight the unreliability of the documents, unfortunately. I would think that if an applicant can get some of the "secondary evidence" they refer to, it would help support the case.
Available. As of February 1, 2011, only originals of the computer generated certified copies of birth certificates should be recognized and accepted for business and travel documentation.
Persons over 18 years of age must apply in person at the appropriate Registrar's Office. Records of registrations more than one year old are deposited with the Office of the Registrar of Births and Deaths for Ghana, C/O Ministry of Local Government, P.O. Box M.270, Accra, Ghana. If the applicant resides outside of Ghana, the person applying must present a written authorization from the individual whose birth certificate is being requested. Persons under 18 years of age must have their parent or guardian obtain the certificate. There may be a fee for this service.
Note: The majority of registrations are not made at the time of birth, and often no registration is made until an individual requires a birth certificate for immigration purposes. Registrations not made within one year of an individual's birth are not reliable evidence of relationship, since registration, including late registration, may often be accomplished upon demand, with little or no supporting documentation required.
- Secondary Evidence: Because of the prevalence of late registrations, secondary evidence of birth is often required. Common secondary evidence includes midwife's certificates of birth, weight cards or welfare centre cards, and baptismal certificates. Recent affidavits by relatives or friends are not reliable.
- Illegitimacy: Ghanaian birth documents do not indicate the marital status of the parents, and the appearance of a man's name on a birth document should not be taken as prima facie evidence of legitimate birth or of subsequent legitimation.
Britsimon
Super Moderator
This is another good point Susie that I should have covered earlier. Ghana has poor standards of record keeping. Ghanaians would be surprised how strict record keeping is in other countries. The constant stream of "I have a mistake in this document" is stunning to those of us that are used to better standards of record keeping - to the point where people in the West don't expect to see fraudulent documents at all. Whilst the US embassies are typically willing to overlook some of the inconsistencies, in Ghana small inconsistencies seem to create a suspicion, since intentional fraud is so common.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
The "some reason" is often either an attempt to submit multiple entries, or an agent making a mistake, in some instances because they enter the person without their knowledge (we had a case here of someone who got his Facebook profile used for that). This is exactly why there is so much suspicion from the embassy around these errors. If there are two things almost everyone who can write knows for sure, it is how to spell their own name and what their own birthday is. No excuse for errors on a form for these...
Britsimon
Super Moderator
One other thing. This phenomenon of massive refusal rate is quite recent. The rate of approval in Ghana was higher previously. From 2006 to 2014 the country was getting about 1500 to 2500 visas in general. DV2014 the number of issuances was 1460. Then in DV2015 the number dropped to 526. Same number of cases, but a massive drop in approvals. This coincides with the introduction of the DS260, which allowed more computerized operation (the nemesis of fraud).
Susie mentioned earlier the role agents have played in this chaos. I had noticed that rise some years ago through entry numbers and asked Ghanaians about it then. What I had noticed was that starting around 2009 the number of entries from Ghana has increased massively, but tellingly the ratio of derivatives increased incredibly (not credibly).
In 2007 there were 210,000 entries plus 80,000 derivatives (so a derivative rate of 1.38). That increased rapidly so by 2015 there were 1,537,000 entries and only 192,000 derivatives (a rate of 1.12). That just doesn't make sense - other than it meaning agents were entering large numbers of entries for people without including spouses and children.
It also meant that out of 1.8 million entries in DV2015, only 526 people got visas (0.03% or 1 person in 3300 entries). Compare that with 2008 where there was one visa awarded for every 161 entries.
Susie mentioned earlier the role agents have played in this chaos. I had noticed that rise some years ago through entry numbers and asked Ghanaians about it then. What I had noticed was that starting around 2009 the number of entries from Ghana has increased massively, but tellingly the ratio of derivatives increased incredibly (not credibly).
In 2007 there were 210,000 entries plus 80,000 derivatives (so a derivative rate of 1.38). That increased rapidly so by 2015 there were 1,537,000 entries and only 192,000 derivatives (a rate of 1.12). That just doesn't make sense - other than it meaning agents were entering large numbers of entries for people without including spouses and children.
It also meant that out of 1.8 million entries in DV2015, only 526 people got visas (0.03% or 1 person in 3300 entries). Compare that with 2008 where there was one visa awarded for every 161 entries.