illegal entry

brian davis

New Member
I would like to discuss illegal entry into the U.S
and how people that have gone thru the legal process, feel.

My question is ..Do you, who went thru the paper work/ process to gain entry
feel that undocumented illegals should be granted permission to stay ? . or not ?
 
Hi Brian,
I would like to discuss illegal entry into the U.S
and how people that have gone thru the legal process, feel.

My question is ..Do you, who went thru the paper work/ process to gain entry
feel that undocumented illegals should be granted permission to stay ? . or not ?

Interesting question - and thank you for asking rather than just assuming which is what too many people do - especially when they have a political bias they are trying to justify.

Let me give you a bit of background.

I have been working in the USA on and off for around 20 years. As a British resident that was perfectly legal and I paid tax on my US earnings in the UK. The rules are such that I could have spent as much or more time in the US as the UK, but since I was a UK resident - I paid tax there. I am in IT, so that was a lot of tax paid over the years.

In 2012 my brother (US citizen) applied for a working visa (H1B) for me as I had decided to live in the USA. That year the H1B cap was exhausted a couple of days before my application was filed - so my brother "wasted" about $3000 in legal fees.

In 2013 my brother tried again and this time, after a long battle with USCIS that cost over $10,000, my visa was approved in December of 2013. We moved to the USA in February of this year.

During the H1 application process my wife won a place ion the DV2014 Green Card lottery - so we knew that we would be able to adjust status onto the Green Card (LPR status) and we achieved that ion September 2014. That process cost around $5000 in filing fees, medicals and so on. We did not need or use a lawyer for that process - thanks to this forum. I was eligible to file for a Green Card on work based or Family based reasons - but both would have been a significantly longer process and more expensive.

So - my process has cost around $20k and was cheap and fast compared to many other examples. By the way, as an LPR, amongst other obligations, I have agreed to pay tax to the USA on worldwide income. For this year alone that means I will contribute over $100k in taxes to the US government, that would otherwise have been paid to the UK government. Since I live in California, my tax rate is comparable to the UK, and I get a lot less (Healthcare education and so on) for those tax dollars. I knew that coming in - so not complaining - just pointing that out.

Now - Obama recently used his powers in an executive action that does not represent an amnesty, but does allow (mainly) parents of "anchor babies" to stay in America without imminent fear of deportation. To many - that seems like a free ride whilst others, such as myself, have played by the rules, spent a lot of money and waited patiently. So - I probably have a right to be pissed about it - right? Well hang on a minute....

The anchor babies are US citizens (by virtue of the 14th amendment) - those kids are entitled to US protection, the same as you or any US citizen. Their parents WILL be entitled to Green Cards anyway - as soon as the child is 21 they will be able to sponsor their parents with no waiting period at all. They will also be able to sponsor their siblings who may not be citizens. All those family members sponsored WILL be entitled for citizenship. The only bar will be certain criminal acts - so for the vast majority it will only be be a matter of time.

So - the issue is about the children - they are citizens. They have rights and one of those should be the protection of their government and their family. So - if the government deport the families, they would be causing disadvantage to the US citizens. That is no way to treat the children and probably not the right way to treat their family either - who are, after all, going to be US citizens anyway. See my point?

So - enforce the borders by all means - I fully support that. But in terms of what the President did it was just common sense taking the 14th amendment into account and was not a free for all amnesty. While the parents are waiting for LPR status, they should be able to live normally, pay taxes, better themselves. That is the American dream, and as a future citizen I would rather they had rights and obligations while they are here waiting rather than being in the shadows, having to work in a black economy, drive an uninsured car and so on. Give them some fair rules and let them play by those rules - just like I do.
 
so your answer is yes. you think they should stay..

even tho they illegally came here?

that brings me to another question,
do you think, some one who is willing to break the law to get what they want. is a trust worthy person?

someone you want living by you?

you see, this is the problem i am having. not a political problem. but a moral one.
they already proved by their actions they are not trustworthy.
if they rationalize its ok to break one law, then who is to say they will not rationalize its ok to rob. steal, murder, incest,whatever
this is the problem, I and some of my friends are having. we are compassionate. to a point.
respect is a 2 way street. we feel our laws are being disrespected, WE are being disrespected



this is a touchy subject, i appreciate your taking the time to discuss it.
 
OK
so your answer is yes. you think they should stay..

even tho they illegally came here?

that brings me to another question,
do you think, some one who is willing to break the law to get what they want. is a trust worthy person?

someone you want living by you?

you see, this is the problem i am having. not a political problem. but a moral one.
they already proved by their actions they are not trustworthy.
if they rationalize its ok to break one law, then who is to say they will not rationalize its ok to rob. steal, murder, incest,whatever
this is the problem, I and some of my friends are having. we are compassionate. to a point.
respect is a 2 way street. we feel our laws are being disrespected, WE are being disrespected



this is a touchy subject, i appreciate your taking the time to discuss it.

Well firstly you seem to have missed (or ignored) my point. I spoke about the kids and their rights. They are totally innocent of any immigration crime and are already citizens. My point was about affording them their rights and recognizing that one way or another their parents will one day have citizenship also.

Bu ok, you raise the point about the parents. So your concern you say is a moral one - a person who is prepared to break the law can't be trusted and might go on to do awful things. Do you speed in the car? Ever been a bit too clever on your taxes? Did you and your friends drink before the legal age? Ever break a law at all? If you did and think that was ok should I assume you are then more likely to "rob. steal, murder, incest,whatever". Of course not - that would be absurd. So why would anyone make the assumption that these families would do that? Again - that is an absurd argument.

You most likely have immigrant blood in you. Someone in your family probably took huge risks to come to a new world (and probably bent a few rules doing it). Just because your parents or their parents broke a couple of laws we wouldn't strip you of your rights. They did that for a chance to live free and find a better life. These people are doing the same thing - they aren't coming here to break the law - and if they do, they will not only face criminal action they will be deported - so actually they have MUCH less likelihood of behaving in any criminal way. On the other hand if they abide by rules, register, pass a background check and pay their taxes, they will in the future become LPRs and eventually (after another 5 years) they could become citizens. Whilst they are LPR they can be deported anytime. Even once they are citizens, if they do wrong, in certain circumstances their citizenship could be revoked. They have a hell of a lot more reason to respect the law than the typical citizen. I would welcome those sort of people as neighbors!

Of course we can stick our heads in the sand and pretend they are not here, but they are here - millions of them. SOME of those people will have criminal intent - just like some Americans do. However, under the present system they aren't registered and they live within a black economy - so when I am driving my car and one of them crashes into my car they can simply vanish into thin air and I am stuck with a repair bill from these uninsured drivers. They can commit other crimes and in most cases their punishment is simple deportation - which is something they live with anyway. They have no skin in the game because we won't let them. So - is that better??? Of course not. Better to register them, tax them and then keep them on probation for years - which is exactly what is being offered - a kind of probation. Here on license - nothing more than that.
 
I ignored the subject of the kids. because we are not going to agree. there is no since beating our heads against each other on that.
i respect your view enough not to be an azz about the subject.
your quote..
Of course we can stick our heads in the sand and pretend they are not here, but they are here - millions of them. SOME of those people will have criminal intent - just like some Americans do. However, under the present system they aren't registered and they live within a black economy - so when I am driving my car and one of them crashes into my car they can simply vanish into thin air and I am stuck with a repair bill from these uninsured drivers. They can commit other crimes and in most cases their punishment is simple deportation - which is something they live with anyway. They have no skin in the game because we won't let them. So - is that better??? Of course not. Better to register them, tax them and then keep them on probation for years - which is exactly what is being offered - a kind of probation. Here on license - nothing more than that.

our government, is not deporting criminals. they are turning them loose to commit again, again, again
the children, and adults that are supposed to be showing up in court are not appearing.

seems a tad bit more seriuos than me going 5mph over the limit. apples to apples.
not apples to grapefruits

IF>>A BIG IF>>> the laws were inforced as they should be..I would be ok for them to be here if..
they are picked up and deported for any type of domestic violence, drunk driving, any offence that causes them to be jailed
immediate deportation, not to be allowed back.

no welfare or ssan benefits till they have paid a minimum 10 years into the system with verifiable documentation to prove dates
all pending applications for citizenship should be granted on their merits. BEFORE they are allowed to register.

sorry, i did not intend to get this far in to this subject...I am a plumber, not a lawyer.

also, NO tax benefits given to employers to hire them, that makes an unfair advantage against citizens
 
Ok Brian, well I bought up the point about the kids since that is a legal certainty. As is the fact that the parents are on a path to citizenship anyway. Do you not agree with the 14 th amendment?

And apples for apples - sure - but you turned an immigration issue into potential murder with that logic, so honestly your example is WAY more "out there".

At the end of the day you are worrying about something that is within the law. If you want to be law abiding and respectful of this country you should have no problem with what the POTUS did. It was entirely lawful. And if you are about the constitution, again, you should have no problem with the anchor baby citizens, since the law was specifically written for exactly their scenario.

It will be interesting to see if others have any views...
 
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