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  • #21
    I think we all are talking about ninsence.

    We were Asylles. Then we applied for adjustment of status by using form I-485,
    The purpose of this form is "To apply to adjust your status to that of a permanent resident of the United States"

    That is like H1-B to LPR, Refugee to LPR, B-1 to LPR, Student to LPR etc.
    In our case Asylee to LPR.

    After approval of of this form we are no longer in prvious status.

    That is,
    If we adjust student visa to LPR we are no longer student.
    If H1-B to LPR then they are no longer H1-B temporary worker.

    Like that we are no longer asylee, We are Legal Permanant Residents.

    (When we transfered from B-1 or B-2 or F-1 or H1-B to Asylee status we were no longer in that status. We were in asylee status our entry date is the date entered in to asylum status.)

    Forget about the previous asylee mentality. We are no longer asylees. We are permanent residents.

    As a permanent resident, we have some rights.
    This is the description given by USCIS.

    " Now that you have become a Permanent Resident of the United States we would like to welcome and congratulate you on your accomplishment. Some of you came to the United States as immigrants through a relative or through an employer. Some of you came as refugees or were given asylum status. And some of you came through other programs, like the Diversity Visa Lottery. But now that you are Permanent Residents you all share the same status. You have certain rights and certain responsibilities as Permanent Residents."

    Rights
    •To live permanently in the United States provided you do not commit any actions that would make you removable (deportable) under the immigration law (section 237, Immigration and Nationality Act).
    •To be employed in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing.
    •To be protected by all of the laws of the United States, your state of residence and local jurisdictions.
    International Travel
    A Permanent Resident of the United States can travel freely outside of the US. A passport from the country of citizenship is normally all that is needed. To reenter the US a Permanent Resident normally needs to present the green card (Permanent Resident Card, Form I-551) for readmission. A reentry permit is needed for reentry for trips greater than one year but less than two years in duration."

    Traveling to the home country will create a problem. Because some one can say that our asylum claim is not through. If they can prove that USCIS might remove our LPR status too. But changing country circumstances after we became a permanent resident might be not a problem. Becouse our claim is not a froude.

    And the same time extending our passport after becomming a Permanent Resident, is not be a problem. But it might be cause to remove the under laying asylum status if it is still hanging behind. Because as a permanent resident we no longer required asylee status.

    I dont see any judgement or documentatun that says " removing this under laying asylee status will automatically remove Permanent residency"

    If they (USCIS) wants to do that they may terminate under laying asylum status.

    I am not an legal expert this is just my idea. May be I am not correct.

    Comment


    • #22
      Well,

      The USCIS' position is that when asylees adjust their status, the law (INA) does not expressly say that the asylee status is terminated. If asylee status is not expressly terminated, the asylee, once adjusted, still has the underlying asylee status. His LPR status is only derived from his asylee status.

      In the case heading to BIA, this is essentially their argument about terminating asylee's underlying status.

      The good news is that BIA and Circuit Court will make decisions on this very soon. So we will get clarification.
      RD: 03/02
      ND: 04/01 (I am NOT responsible for this!)
      FP: 07/04
      RFI: 07/05
      BIO: 07/05
      APPROVAL: 08/05

      Comment


      • #23
        Which case is this heading to BIA? Can we read the case file?

        I think the USCIS position is wrong. They are saying Green Card through asylum is nothing, nil. The only benefit of it is to start the clock toward citizenship eligibility.

        If that's the intention of the law, then the law makers made it so convoluted and ridiculous. They could have just stipulated that once one gets asylum, then one has to wait certain years (5?) to be eligible to apply for citizenship.

        So if there was no difference whether one has a green card or not, why bother to issue them?
        Last edited by wii; 28th March 2009, 12:42 PM.
        D/O : (Los Angeles)
        04/21/09 : N-400 Mailed
        04/23/09 : Priority Date
        04/29/09 : Checks Cashed
        06/04/09 : Fingerprint Appointment Date
        05/14/09 : Fingerprint Taken with Walk-in
        07/28/09 : Interview Date (Recommended for approval)
        08/28/09 : Oath Ceremony

        Comment


        • #24
          Hey ELJAY, that was a good thread, it makes alot sense, i also like what WII stated on his thread, sometimes i feel the same way, i went thru alot stress during my asylum case and i was so, so happy when i won it and when i got my GC, but sometimes i feel i am not really free to travel ( i am not talking about going to COP) as the others green card holders ( marriage for exemple ), the good think is that i can look forward to the day i will be an US citizen!

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by wii View Post
            Which case is this heading to BIA? Can we read the case file?

            I think the USCIS position is wrong. They are saying Green Card through asylum is nothing, nil. The only benefit of it is to start the clock toward citizenship eligibility.

            If that's the intention of the law, then the law makers made it so convoluted and ridiculous. They could have just stipulated that once one gets asylum, then one has to wait certain years (5?) to be eligible to apply for citizenship.

            So if there was no difference whether one has a green card or not, why bother to issue them?
            Go to any law school's case database and search for "Sikh" under immigration. Hopefully you will be able to browse through to find the case because I do not think there are a lot Sikhs in U.S. The guy is from Sikkim state of India - that is probably all I can remember. Of course the defendant is Mucasey. The case was decided in January 2009 by Immigration Court, pending appeal in BIA.
            RD: 03/02
            ND: 04/01 (I am NOT responsible for this!)
            FP: 07/04
            RFI: 07/05
            BIO: 07/05
            APPROVAL: 08/05

            Comment


            • #26
              Can you explain us briefly what is Sikh case about?

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by windywd View Post
                Well,

                The USCIS' position is that when asylees adjust their status, the law (INA) does not expressly say that the asylee status is terminated. If asylee status is not expressly terminated, the asylee, once adjusted, still has the underlying asylee status. His LPR status is only derived from his asylee status.

                In the case heading to BIA, this is essentially their argument about terminating asylee's underlying status.

                The good news is that BIA and Circuit Court will make decisions on this very soon. So we will get clarification.
                ===============================================

                To windywd

                So do you meen that some one can keep two immigration status togather.

                I meen Asylle status and Permanent resident status.

                Then what is the meening of change of atatus through I-485 Adjust of Status.

                Why people are waiting long time to get adjusted?

                I think the main question are:
                Are there any two different types of permanent resident status?

                This is the deffinition of asylum (According to the USCIS web site)

                What is Asylum?
                Asylum is a form of protection granted to individuals in the United States who have been persecuted or fear they will be persecuted on account of their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. Individuals who meet this definition of a refugee and who are already in the United States or who are seeking entry into the United States at a port of entry may qualify for a grant of asylum and be permitted to remain in the United States as long as they are not barred from either applying for or being granted asylum. Individuals who are granted asylum are eligible to apply to adjust their status to that of a lawful permanent resident.

                I think asylee status is a non immigrant status.

                As long as we are a citizons of one country and there is a problems to live, we are able to get asylum or protection from another country. Because we dont have any other place to live. But after we get permanant residency in this second country or an other therd country we are no longer eligible to get protection because we have permanent place to livr, other than first country.

                Citizon ship is a aecond thing. Obtaining LPR status means, that we got a place to live without fear. And other thing approval of change of status is changing previous status. If some one change F1 visa to B1 visa means Their is no underlaying F1 visa. And also USCIS does not expressly say that F1 visa holder lost his F1 visa status or He has any underlaying F1 visa.

                The question is, If any asylee get a permanent residency in a safe country, (In the country wheir he got asylum or any other third country who admited him as a permanent resident) are they still eligible or required to get asylum status in U.S.A.? Or legally permitted to keep his asylum status?

                Of couse if we travel to own country or extending NP while we are in asylum status may prove that we did froude in our initial claim. But will it effect after changing status?

                and also, According to USCIS, there more resons can be cancel our asylum status,
                1. Traveling to COP.
                2. Changing the situation in COP. etc.

                Is that mean, are they going to cancell permanet resident status, If the country situation changed after getting Immigrant status in USA?

                Like this
                Are they going to cancell Permanent resident status for some one got PR through marrage , if they separated after the devoce (May be after certain period and initial marrage is not a froude) ?
                Are they going to cancell Permanent resident status for some one got PR through employment , if they stop working. (May be after certain period ) ?

                And also,
                According to the uscis web site ,

                Maintaining Permanent ResidenceMaintaining Permanent Residence You may lose your permanent residence status if you commit an act that makes you removable from the United States under the law in section 237 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. If you commit such an act, you may be brought before the immigration courts to determine your right to remain a Permanent Resident.

                You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:


                •Move to another country intending to live there permanently.
                •Remain outside of the US for more than one year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
                •Remain outside of the US for more than two years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
                •Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the US for any period.
                •Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns.

                May be a good lawyer can make all immigration mithes up side down.

                As long as we are not breaking above things, We are still PR.

                ================

                Be aware of immigration lawyers who spread mithes and try to spred fear among former asylee and then make money out of that.

                Go for good lawyers who knows about the immigration law, not the immigration miths.

                ======================

                I am very sorry for my poor english. Now a days I am taking some english classes.
                I hope I will be fluent in english before I am getting my citizonship. Again I apologize.
                Last edited by eljay; 29th March 2009, 01:08 PM.

                Comment


                • #28
                  The only basis to terminate LPR status is to prove that the initial application was fraud. Thus, if you returned to COP it might trigger reopening of your case. If you argue that situation changed after you adjusted your status nobody is gonna termonate your LPR status. But reopening the case would cost us money, time and emotions. That is how I see it, but of course Iam not in any way a legal mind. Just common sense.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Eljay,

                    First of all, do not go personal. I used to be an asylee, and I am now USC. However, I have been always an asylum-seeker advocate; that position has not changed, ever.

                    Do I think asylee-turned LPR has dual status? Obviously, USCIS thinks so; I don't. That said, it is important to understand what DHS lawyers think of this and what their argument would be.

                    DHS' sole argument about dual status seems from the very section of INA that does not explicitly mention about "termination of asylee status" when AOS is granted. That is, in my opinion, a little shaky. I expect BIA will bring a little clarification based on its interpretation of the law.

                    However, even if BIA (or later Circuit Court) decides that those LPRs do not have dual status, this still does not mean that LPRs can go to COP as freely as you think. The law does say that they may grant adjustment of status when you still meet the definition of refugee. Suppose you get approval on March 1, 2009, if they can prove that on Feb. 28th, 2009 you did not meet the definition of asylee, they can revoke both your green card and your asylee status. Now, if you travel to COP in April or May or June, there is an argument from the government that absent from any major changed conditions it could be concluded from those trips that you did not meet the definition in February.

                    That is why attorneys do not recommend their clients to go to COP shortly after their AOS, the same advice they will give to marriage-based LPRs (i.e., do not file for divorce immediately after AOS). Believe me, people do stupid things like
                    1. they go to Columbia the next week after AOS,
                    2. they participated anti-Fa Lun Gong parade even though they got asylee status because of this,
                    3. they became active pro-COP blogger,
                    4. they went to COP showing off their accumulated wealth from U.S. and told their neighbors about how they made it..

                    That why the government is upset.
                    RD: 03/02
                    ND: 04/01 (I am NOT responsible for this!)
                    FP: 07/04
                    RFI: 07/05
                    BIO: 07/05
                    APPROVAL: 08/05

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by windywd View Post
                      Eljay,

                      First of all, do not go personal. I used to be an asylee, and I am now USC. However, I have been always an asylum-seeker advocate; that position has not changed, ever.

                      Do I think asylee-turned LPR has dual status? Obviously, USCIS thinks so; I don't. That said, it is important to understand what DHS lawyers think of this and what their argument would be.

                      DHS' sole argument about dual status seems from the very section of INA that does not explicitly mention about "termination of asylee status" when AOS is granted. That is, in my opinion, a little shaky. I expect BIA will bring a little clarification based on its interpretation of the law.

                      However, even if BIA (or later Circuit Court) decides that those LPRs do not have dual status, this still does not mean that LPRs can go to COP as freely as you think. The law does say that they may grant adjustment of status when you still meet the definition of refugee. Suppose you get approval on March 1, 2009, if they can prove that on Feb. 28th, 2009 you did not meet the definition of asylee, they can revoke both your green card and your asylee status. Now, if you travel to COP in April or May or June, there is an argument from the government that absent from any major changed conditions it could be concluded from those trips that you did not meet the definition in February.

                      That is why attorneys do not recommend their clients to go to COP shortly after their AOS, the same advice they will give to marriage-based LPRs (i.e., do not file for divorce immediately after AOS). Believe me, people do stupid things like
                      1. they go to Columbia the next week after AOS,
                      2. they participated anti-Fa Lun Gong parade even though they got asylee status because of this,
                      3. they became active pro-COP blogger,
                      4. they went to COP showing off their accumulated wealth from U.S. and told their neighbors about how they made it..

                      That why the government is upset.
                      I will agree with you, But in my case , Icame in 2001 under B-1 visa then transfered to H-1 visa. and then asylum in 2002. Got approved in first interview. My family came under H-4 they were included in initial application. Thay too got approved for asylum with mine in 2002 April. Then applied for
                      GC on 2005. My kids got approved in 2006. But me and my wife reseved LPR on 2007 Sept. (Back dated to 2006). Our national passports already expiored.
                      My mother was sick and we wanted to see her(she is 78 years old). Then applied for RTD. request for expidite service. But we reseived it almost after 8 months. We never leave this country from our arrival.Now again she is not in good condition. Now we are in LPR status for about 18 months. (excluding backdated period). Our fifth year in GC will be 2011. Our RTDs are already expiered.

                      My kid alredy 4-1/2 years in GC. Can they apply for citzonship before us?

                      the reson of asking all of this questions are to clerify this travel requirments.

                      Thank you for clerifications.
                      Last edited by eljay; 29th March 2009, 11:08 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I am not talking about traveling to COP after one year of adjustment of status.
                        I understand your argument.
                        I am talking about getting passport and travelling to cop after about 2 or 3 years after getting Green Card.

                        And also, Asylee is a person who does not have permanent place place to live without fear. But getting Legal permanent residency means he got a permanent place to live without fear. LPR is an immigrant. So he is not eligible to keep asylum status any more and no need any protection.

                        And the person who travelling to COP is not an asylee , He is a Legal permanent resident. Because he already adjusted his status.

                        (Just for discussion)

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by eljay View Post
                          I am not talking about traveling to COP after one year of adjustment of status.
                          I understand your argument.
                          I am talking about getting passport and travelling to cop after about 2 or 3 years after getting Green Card.

                          And also, Asylee is a person who does not have permanent place place to live without fear. But getting Legal permanent residency means he got a permanent place to live without fear. LPR is an immigrant. So he is not eligible to keep asylum status any more and no need any protection.

                          And the person who travelling to COP is not an asylee , He is a Legal permanent resident. Because he already adjusted his status.

                          (Just for discussion)
                          I don't think in your situation there is an issue. Get enough documentation and you should be fine.

                          From the background of cases I know so far, in everyone of those cases those LPRs did seem to have "abused the system".

                          So far, USCIS routinely grant AOS to asylee without looking at the changed conditions, although INA does say that they may do so only if asylee still to be an asylee. They appear very reasonable and I have no doubt they will not have an issue for LPRs travel for emergency.
                          RD: 03/02
                          ND: 04/01 (I am NOT responsible for this!)
                          FP: 07/04
                          RFI: 07/05
                          BIO: 07/05
                          APPROVAL: 08/05

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Thank you.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Why not wait another year(4 years) become US citizen and then go back to COP with peace of mind?

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Dude,

                                If my parents (or grandparents) are dying and this would be my last chance to see them, I will pack up and go without hesitation.

                                Luckily, all of the 6 people I have are live and kicking, and in good health.
                                RD: 03/02
                                ND: 04/01 (I am NOT responsible for this!)
                                FP: 07/04
                                RFI: 07/05
                                BIO: 07/05
                                APPROVAL: 08/05

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I would call ABLPR (asylum based LPR) an asylee who got LPR based on asylum, or a refugee who got LPR based on refugee status. I do not see any single reference that going to country of persecution or using national passport by ABLPR would violate or jeopardize gree card.

                                  Istead, all references you show, when they talk about jeopardizing LPR status, refer only to a single situation. When your pattern of going to the country of persecution show that you originally lied on your asylum application or on your refugee application. Of course, if you lied, you are deportable, no questions about that.

                                  For instance, if you mentioned on an asylum application you could not get a decent job or education because of your political opinion, and got asylum based on that, your trip as a tourist would not mean anything bad.

                                  But if you claimed the Prezident of the country of persecution was chasing you threatening to kill you, and the guy is still in power by the time of your travel, that would mean you could have lied on asylum application
                                  Last edited by raevsky; 30th March 2009, 04:14 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Another story is refugee or asylee, who is not an LPR.

                                    The definition of refugee/asylee by UN is the following:

                                    As a result of events occurring before I January 1951 and owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.
                                    According to this definition, US has to stop considering such a person as refugee/asylee (if the person uses protection of the country of persecution, or if the person is willing to return there).

                                    When a person becomes LPR, he or she is no longer a refugee, and all this staff becomes irrelevant. The only problem with ABLPR because of travel could happen if he or she lied on asylum/refugee application, and that was not known before, but was indicated by his travel.

                                    That is it.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Incorrect.

                                      Someone here posted USCIS Operating Manual as of November 2007. (Good job, as I do not have to download and upload):

                                      http://forums.immigration.com/showth...=250055&page=3

                                      On page 143 last paragraph:

                                      Termination proceedings can only be initiated after an Asylum Approval has been issued, and
                                      may be initiated even if the individual has adjusted to LPR status.
                                      The Asylum Office does
                                      not have jurisdiction to terminate asylum granted by EOIR. If the Asylum Office receives a
                                      request to take action to terminate asylum that was granted by EOIR, the Asylum Office
                                      refers the requester to USCIS Area Counsel or the ICE Office of the Principal Legal Advisor
                                      (OPLA).
                                      When USCIS initiates termination proceedings, it may do so by initiating and conducting
                                      termination proceedings at the Asylum Office pursuant to guidance in this manual, or USCIS
                                      may elect to issue an NTA concurrently with a Notice of Intent to Terminate Asylum Status
                                      by EOIR (Appendix 43) to vest the Immigration Court with jurisdiction over the termination
                                      proceedings. See 8 C.F.R. 208.24(f).
                                      The Asylum Office that handles issues related to the termination of asylum status, including
                                      conducting termination proceedings, if any, is the Asylum Office with jurisdiction over the
                                      asylee’s place of residence (or, if detained, place of detention). The Asylum Office that
                                      conducts termination proceedings may update the REVO screen regardless of whether that
                                      office issued the asylum grant.
                                      RD: 03/02
                                      ND: 04/01 (I am NOT responsible for this!)
                                      FP: 07/04
                                      RFI: 07/05
                                      BIO: 07/05
                                      APPROVAL: 08/05

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        All that is said here is about previous travel, when the person was already an asylee/refugee, but was not a LPR yet. If he or she was still allowed into US after travel as a refugee/asylee, his asylee/refugee status could be removed retroactively by the date of his travel, even if he is already an LPR by the time his previous travel was noticed by the authorities

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Incorrect.

                                          That is NOT what they said.

                                          Asylum status may be terminated for specific reasons as listed in INA § 208(c)(2). An individual’s underlying asylum status may be terminated even if the individual has already become a lawful permanent resident.

                                          Accordingly, an asylee or a lawful permanent resident who obtained such status based on a grant of asylum status may be questioned about why he or she was able to return to the country of claimed persecution and, in some circumstances, may be subject to proceedings to terminate asylum status.


                                          This is really plain English.
                                          RD: 03/02
                                          ND: 04/01 (I am NOT responsible for this!)
                                          FP: 07/04
                                          RFI: 07/05
                                          BIO: 07/05
                                          APPROVAL: 08/05

                                          Comment

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