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3 years degree EB3, 140 at NSC - please advice

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  • Anilt,

    Details as bellow....

    My education

    AMIE in Electronics and comm Engineering
    3 Year Diploma in engineering

    ETA part A requires

    In column 14 as bellow
    Box - College degree required: Bachelor Science
    Box - Major filed of study: Science/Computer Science/Engineering *

    In column 15 as bellow
    * (or equivalent)

    -------------------------
    Employer/Attorney stateing like bellow

    The asterisk part means that we will accept a Bachelor's degree in Science, Computer Science, Engineering or we will accept the equivalent of that degree. Meaning a four year degree is not necessary. If your education has been evaluated to be the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree in one of those subjects, that is also ok.

    -------------------------------

    Please give me your openion.

    Thanks,


    Originally posted by anilt75
    --Sorry to hear that Surabhi. Post all the details. Labor requirements, your credentials and the RFE text. Someone can assess your situation then.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by surabhi
      Anilt,

      Details as bellow....

      My education

      AMIE in Electronics and comm Engineering
      3 Year Diploma in engineering

      ETA part A requires

      In column 14 as bellow
      Box - College degree required: Bachelor Science
      Box - Major filed of study: Science/Computer Science/Engineering *

      In column 15 as bellow
      * (or equivalent)

      -------------------------
      Employer/Attorney stateing like bellow

      The asterisk part means that we will accept a Bachelor's degree in Science, Computer Science, Engineering or we will accept the equivalent of that degree. Meaning a four year degree is not necessary. If your education has been evaluated to be the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree in one of those subjects, that is also ok.

      -------------------------------

      Please give me your openion.

      Thanks,
      --It is very very unfortunate that professionals with AMIE,CA and ICWAI certificates are having hard time to convince USCIS of bachelor's equivalency. Infact, I know that these degrees are of higher standard, if not equal(debatable), when compared to 4-year BE or BTech degrees from India. They approve BE or B.Tech in a whimper. At the same time, literal-headed officers get hung up on 3-year diploma leading to AMIE and thus do not consider it as a "single source 4-year" degree.

      One option you can try is to find the prospectus of AMIE and work with an education evaluation agency who can understand this degree. Focus should be on the level of education that AMIE requires for a candidate to take the course. My guess is, credit by credit evaluation of AMIE should far exceed conventional B.E or B.Tech credits and should stand as a degree equivalent by itself.

      A person can complete 4 year degree in less time. He/She can score some credits if they already have another degree or diploma before they enter into it. Common sense tells me that USCIS should go by the quality of highest degree attained. Not the the number of years spent to finish the degree.
      Strategize along those lines. You may get lucky.

      There are some people who tried to equate AMIE as bachelor's equivalency and NSC did not budge. Long ago, one guy got an approval though. Worth trying.

      Give a call to Sheila Danzig and discuss with her. She is aggressive in her approach. She may give you an option.

      Sheila's number: 1.800.771.4723. Also point her to the Institute of Engineers Website: http://www.ieindia.org/member.htm

      Your case is denied because of the conflict of "Equivalency" interpretation by the NSC and your attorney. You may try equating AMIE alone to a bachelor's degree in terms of credits. Very difficult at this point. You need luck.

      Good luck,
      Anil
      Last edited by anilt75; 23rd October 2006, 08:13 PM.

      Comment


      • UN, Anil...

        //
        Thanks Anil, good point. However, I already have an advertisement which has been out there for 3 months. The timeline I have in mind for the NEW EB3 labor is (assuming that I revoke my existing approved EB2 case):
        1) File labor by Oct end
        2) labor approved by Dec end
        3) file 140 in PP, result back by Jan 10th

        --Use old labor and apply I-140 in EB3 Premium Processing TODAY.If you had done this about a week ago, you would have had some decision by October end. See the fate of the old labor come through. If you dont get some outcome by November first week, start another process for a different person like UN said.You can substitute yourself on that labor later. This is as good as it gets Maansi.
        //


        Thanks Anil, for your inputs again.
        Here is what I am doing - finally -
        1) My lawyer has today applied using old EB2 labor in EB3 premium processing. Assuming (she said praying...) it still is eligible for premium processing, I should get the results by Nov 4th or so.

        - If it gets accepted in premium, then:
        a) If it gets approved in EB3, then YAY!
        b) If it gets rejected again, then file a fresh EB3 FOR
        MYSELF on Nov 4th, using the existing advertisements.
        Hopefully, get the labor approved in a month (I am applying
        in Chicago) and then apply for EB3 140 premium on Dec 5th
        or so

        - If it doesn't get accepted in premium (which I should get to know in 3-4 days), then, as UN and you have suggested, file fresh EB3 for a different person around Nov 4th, and then do a labor substitution around Dec mid (of course, if the old 140 hasn't come through) -- AND PRAY HARD!

        My only question to you guys is - what is meant by original labor in "As long as you have the original labor then no problem".
        -- And --
        Can I do a labor substitution at any time, or do I have to wait for the original labor to be in a certain stage (approved/pending, etc)


        Yes, Anil, this is as good as it gets, thanks to you guys and the wonderful work that you are doing.

        God bless!

        Comment


        • "Can I do a labor substitution at any time, or do I have to wait for the original labor to be in a certain stage (approved/pending, etc)"

          --I think you can substitute while labor is still in process. Double check with your attorney.If I were you, I would wait till it is approved and then substitute myself with it at I-140 level. Unless I am missing something, it is going to save time that way rather poking around with the pending application.

          So finally you applied for I-140 eh? Keep us posted about the outcome. Whether they accepted it in PP , approved or denied....

          UN, A0001 and myself want to attend your citizenship ceremony one day

          Comment


          • Incidentally, having reviewed your case which you have provided here, I would say that I think a particularly strong case can be made for reversal in your case based addendum.

            Usually I never keep hopes on appeals in NSC but yours is in fact a much stronger case what I seen in fast few years.

            ONLY file MTR - NOT Appeal. MTR has to demonstrate strongly about addendum. Then OK.

            Welcome - If you have any questions.

            Good luck.


            Originally posted by MunDog
            I have 3 year Diploma in Engineering, 3 year Bachelor or Arts, Certificate in Computing and couple of certifications, computer courses. Total of 9 year experience at the time of applying LC (2003).

            Last week my I-140 was denied by NSC in EB3-Skilled Labor category.

            My form ETA750-A shows 4 year and Bachelor's in the College requirement (#14) "but" in the Major Field of Study section under College education, it refers to an "Addendum to PartA" where "descriptive requirements" are listed. Those requirements clearly state "acceptance of Bachelor's or 3 year degree with 2 year experience, or any equivalent combination of degree(s) and experience in any of the relevant fields."

            Denial notice says that Educational Evaluation is for 3 year degree plus experience equating to a 4 yr Bachelors. Denial letter states that combination is not allowed towards Bachelors.

            My attorney suggested filing a motion. It is evident that INS totally "overlooked" the detail written in the addendum to item 14 in ETA750 and just read into partial info from the item 14 boxes.

            I am quite stressed out since I have heard that percentage of success in appeals is quite low. Would appreciate any expert opinion on this. United Nations, please help. My 6 year end in March'07. During the appeal time, is it possible to get an extension?

            ************************************************** ******************
            To discuss any I-140 Educational issues needs Labor/ETA details either ETA 750 Part A Column 14 /15 OR ETA 9089 Section H (*Row 4 to 14).
            ************************************************** ******************

            Comment


            • Originally posted by A0001
              Incidentally, having reviewed your case which you have provided here, I would say that I think a particularly strong case can be made for reversal in your case based addendum.

              Usually I never keep hopes on appeals in NSC but yours is in fact a much stronger case what I seen in fast few years.

              ONLY file MTR - NOT Appeal. MTR has to demonstrate strongly about addendum. Then OK.

              Welcome - If you have any questions.

              Good luck.
              MunDog,

              When did you apply the I-140?. Was it a PP?

              Did you applied for EB-3 Proffessional or Skilled?.

              I think you really have a good chance with MTR...see the below sentance from my previous I-140 denail. Please note that my old labor did not had the 'combination' or the '3 year degree' or 'Work experience" words.


              "In part 14 of the Form ETA 750 the petitioner required that, at a minimum, a prospective employee would have 2 years experience in the job offered or a related occupation, completed four years of college education; earned a bachelor's degree in "Computer Science, Physics, Computer Engineering, Computer Applications, Computer Information Systems, Electrical/ Electronic Engineering, Math, or its foreign educational equivalent." Form ETA 750 does not state that any other level of education will satisfy the petitioner's requirement, nor does it provide for a degree equivalent as the minimum level of education, regardless of whether the equivalency is based on work experience, training, or a combination of lesser degrees. "

              The above statement clearly shows that they do accept the combination.

              Good Luck......
              Adi_gc

              Comment


              • Good to know that NSC is accepting Combination. Mine denied for using combination. NSC wants "SINGLE DEGREE". If they do approve then I would take another chance. Could someone please clarify?

                Comment


                • 140

                  Originally posted by anilt75
                  "Can I do a labor substitution at any time, or do I have to wait for the original labor to be in a certain stage (approved/pending, etc)"

                  --I think you can substitute while labor is still in process. Double check with your attorney.If I were you, I would wait till it is approved and then substitute myself with it at I-140 level. Unless I am missing something, it is going to save time that way rather poking around with the pending application.

                  So finally you applied for I-140 eh? Keep us posted about the outcome. Whether they accepted it in PP , approved or denied....

                  UN, A0001 and myself want to attend your citizenship ceremony one day

                  If that day comes, you bet

                  Thanks again you guys...
                  M

                  Comment


                  • and...

                    can you pls help me, guys..

                    what is meant by original labor in "As long as you have the original labor then no problem". I did a google and other searches but not much help...

                    thanks
                    M

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by stillwaiiting
                      Good to know that NSC is accepting Combination. Mine denied for using combination. NSC wants "SINGLE DEGREE". If they do approve then I would take another chance. Could someone please clarify?
                      What was mentioned in the labor ? Combination allowed???

                      Thanks...

                      Comment


                      • Thanks for the confidence guys

                        Originally posted by unitednations
                        There is a couple of other cases; where uscis overlooked the "addendum". In motion to reopen when it was pointed out to them, they approved it.

                        You won't have any problem.

                        UnitedNations, thanks for your insight. Meanwhile is it possible to get 7th year extension while the motion is in progress? FYI, my I-140 was submitted in premium.

                        Comment


                        • Thanks A00001

                          Originally posted by A0001
                          Incidentally, having reviewed your case which you have provided here, I would say that I think a particularly strong case can be made for reversal in your case based addendum.

                          Usually I never keep hopes on appeals in NSC but yours is in fact a much stronger case what I seen in fast few years.

                          ONLY file MTR - NOT Appeal. MTR has to demonstrate strongly about addendum. Then OK.

                          Welcome - If you have any questions.

                          Good luck.
                          A00001, Thanks a lot for building my confidence. I just hope things go well since I am hearing bad things about NSC so far.
                          What is MTR? Is it Motion to Reverse? If yes then I guess that is what my attorney's gonna do. He has been mentioning about Motion and not the Appeal. I did not know if there was a difference. Seems like there are other suttle differences as compared to where the Motion is sent, AAO or otherwise (I don't know the minutes of that).

                          Comment


                          • You can refile! Please post exact details in ETA.

                            Originally posted by stillwaiiting
                            Good to know that NSC is accepting Combination. Mine denied for using combination. NSC wants "SINGLE DEGREE". If they do approve then I would take another chance. Could someone please clarify?

                            You have strong possibility for 140 success. First workout for for that.

                            Originally posted by MunDog
                            UnitedNations, thanks for your insight. Meanwhile is it possible to get 7th year extension while the motion is in progress? FYI, my I-140 was submitted in premium.

                            Administrative law is highly counterintuitive even to many lawyers. We need to spend large amount of time educating our self.


                            Originally posted by maansi28
                            can you pls help me, guys..

                            what is meant by original labor in "As long as you have the original labor then no problem". I did a google and other searches but not much help...

                            thanks
                            M

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by adi_gc
                              MunDog,

                              When did you apply the I-140?. Was it a PP?

                              Did you applied for EB-3 Proffessional or Skilled?.

                              I think you really have a good chance with MTR...see the below sentance from my previous I-140 denail. Please note that my old labor did not had the 'combination' or the '3 year degree' or 'Work experience" words.


                              "In part 14 of the Form ETA 750 the petitioner required that, at a minimum, a prospective employee would have 2 years experience in the job offered or a related occupation, completed four years of college education; earned a bachelor's degree in "Computer Science, Physics, Computer Engineering, Computer Applications, Computer Information Systems, Electrical/ Electronic Engineering, Math, or its foreign educational equivalent." Form ETA 750 does not state that any other level of education will satisfy the petitioner's requirement, nor does it provide for a degree equivalent as the minimum level of education, regardless of whether the equivalency is based on work experience, training, or a combination of lesser degrees. "

                              The above statement clearly shows that they do accept the combination.

                              Good Luck......
                              Adi_gc
                              It was PP and not sure which category but the denial states Skilled Labor so I guess that's what it was. Wish I would have checked the apps before though my Addendum looks OK.

                              Comment


                              • Can you see my ETA details again in my previous posting and let me know if any think any LOGICS for refile.

                                Originally posted by anilt75
                                --It is very very unfortunate that professionals with AMIE,CA and ICWAI certificates are having hard time to convince USCIS of bachelor's equivalency. Infact, I know that these degrees are of higher standard, if not equal(debatable), when compared to 4-year BE or BTech degrees from India. They approve BE or B.Tech in a whimper. At the same time, literal-headed officers get hung up on 3-year diploma leading to AMIE and thus do not consider it as a "single source 4-year" degree.

                                One option you can try is to find the prospectus of AMIE and work with an education evaluation agency who can understand this degree. Focus should be on the level of education that AMIE requires for a candidate to take the course. My guess is, credit by credit evaluation of AMIE should far exceed conventional B.E or B.Tech credits and should stand as a degree equivalent by itself.

                                A person can complete 4 year degree in less time. He/She can score some credits if they already have another degree or diploma before they enter into it. Common sense tells me that USCIS should go by the quality of highest degree attained. Not the the number of years spent to finish the degree.
                                Strategize along those lines. You may get lucky.

                                There are some people who tried to equate AMIE as bachelor's equivalency and NSC did not budge. Long ago, one guy got an approval though. Worth trying.

                                Give a call to Sheila Danzig and discuss with her. She is aggressive in her approach. She may give you an option.

                                Sheila's number: 1.800.771.4723. Also point her to the Institute of Engineers Website: http://www.ieindia.org/member.htm

                                Your case is denied because of the conflict of "Equivalency" interpretation by the NSC and your attorney. You may try equating AMIE alone to a bachelor's degree in terms of credits. Very difficult at this point. You need luck.

                                Good luck,
                                Anil

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by surabhi
                                  Can you see my ETA details again in my previous posting and let me know if any think any LOGICS for refile.

                                  From what I understand, your ETA does not define the term "equivalency" to include combination of education or experience. This creates room for NSC to interpret "equivalency" as "single source 4 year degree" from foreign country that is equivalent to US bachelor's degree.

                                  Based on my understanding, your only option is to equate AMIE to US Bachelor's degree and give it a shot again.

                                  All said and done, start new PERM process as a backup and maintain your H1B status. If you go through this thread , you will know how to do PERM with qualifications such as yours or the ones who do not have 4-year degrees.


                                  Good luck,
                                  Anil

                                  Comment


                                  • 15-1041.00 Computer Support Specialists

                                    15-1041.00 Computer Support Specialists

                                    Provide technical assistance to computer system users. Answer questions or resolve computer problems for clients in person, via telephone or from remote location. May provide assistance concerning the use of computer hardware and software, including printing, installation, word processing, electronic mail, and operating systems.
                                    O*Net™ JobZone: 3 *
                                    Education & Training Code: No Level Set **


                                    * JobZone Three: Medium Preparation Needed: Education: Most occupations in this zone require training in vocational schools, on-the-job experience, or an associate's degree. Some may require a bachelor's degree.

                                    Does that means that if LC is for : 15-1041.00 Computer Support Specialists with three years degree it should be ok for I-140, not sure about ETA form col 14 and 15, but I guess 14 says Bachelors or equivalent, Nothing in 15, there is no way to find out col 14/15 info from Attorney or Company, Attorney mentioned that we are ok with 3 years degree.

                                    ** what is the meaning of No Level Set here?
                                    EB2/India - NSC
                                    Priority Date: Dec 19, 2001
                                    I-485: RD: Feb 02, 2007, Approved on Nov 05, 2007 (both), Card Received on Nov 16, 2007
                                    LUDs: 2/09/07, 3/16/07, 3/17/07, 11/09/07, 11/10/07, 11/12/07, 11/13/07, 11/15/07
                                    NC Cleared: 9/26/07

                                    Derivative: Card Received on Nov 13, 2007
                                    LUD: 2/09/07, 3/16/07, 3/17/07, 11/12, 11/13, 11/14
                                    NC Cleared: June 2007

                                    Comment


                                    • Anil, UN...

                                      Hi guys,
                                      it looks like my questions for you never end..sorry...here is one more:

                                      The 6th yr H1 extn that I have got is till Feb 10, 2007 (altho' my 6 yrs get over on Jan 1 2007). My lawyer says that it is not our fault and that I can legally live and work in the US till Feb 10, 2007.

                                      Is that correct? (I have read on many forums that it is not)?
                                      Will making use of this mistake by INS create any problems later on? (e.g., when I get my visa stamped in India, etc).

                                      Also, as UN had said "on re-entering the past unlawful prescense would be wiped out if the presence is for <6 months" ----- would making use of this aspect when going to H4 and then back to H1 (EXCERPT ATTACHED BELOW), create problems when I get my visa stamped in India?

                                      thanks
                                      Maansi

                                      ------------------------------------

                                      3) I am hoping my 140 also would get approved in the next few months. So when the time is right, I can come back on H1 without problems..correct?

                                      There is nothing in the law that explicitly covers the scenario where one is past six years on h and is currently on h-4 and tries to change back to h-1 without being subject to the new quota.

                                      When one files an H-1 and they are not currently in h-1 they would file it as "new employment: There is another part where you state that you have been in h-1b status once in the last six years and not left the country for more then one year. This part is the key because you can answer "yes" and you will not be subject to the quota.

                                      I only know of one person who has tried this. This was the situation:

                                      Person's 7th year on h-1b expired in April 2006. He was beneficiary of 140 and working on EAD. September 2006, uscis revoked the approved I-140 and denied the 485.

                                      His wife was on h-1b. He filed for a change of status from EAD to H-4 in October 2006. Somehow USCIS approved it with an I-94 card. (note: one can only chage or extend status if they are currently in non immigrant status. Since he wasn't in non immigrant status they shouldn't have approved it. However, they did.

                                      It was approved in December 2006. He wanted to get back on H-1. I told him that from September to December 2006 he was accruing unlawful prescense and it may come up as an issue. I directed him to go to Canada for one day and come back to USA with a new I-94 card. Since he is re-entering his past unlawful prescense would be wiped out (note: this only works if one had less then six months of unlawful presence). As soon as he came back in, we applied for a change of status from H-4 to H-1 stating he wasn't subject to the cap. However, he had no labor in his name and no I-140. To get around this, we focused on USCIS memo in 2003 which states a person can extend h-1 if he/she will use any labor which is older then 365 days (key part is "any labor"). We used a pending/backlog labor in someone else's name and had the company say they were going to substitute him onto it upon approval.

                                      It was filed in premium and approved in one week. He got one year extension on H-1b.

                                      Note: His 7 years expired in April 2006.

                                      He switched to H-4 and then got back onto H-1b.

                                      This is a similar situation to your's.

                                      Note: I am doing one that is exact same as your's. Only difference is that we are using an approved labor in someone else's name and saying we are going to substitute.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by maansi28
                                        Hi guys,
                                        it looks like my questions for you never end..sorry...here is one more:

                                        The 6th yr H1 extn that I have got is till Feb 10, 2007 (altho' my 6 yrs get over on Jan 1 2007). My lawyer says that it is not our fault and that I can legally live and work in the US till Feb 10, 2007.

                                        Usually you can not benefit from USCIS/INS mistake. But there is one thing you can take advantage of.
                                        Did you spend anytime outside US in last 6 years? If so, add that time to your last day Jan 1 2007. If it exceeds Feb 10, 2007 you should be ok. Check with your lawyer on this strategy.


                                        Is that correct? (I have read on many forums that it is not)?
                                        Will making use of this mistake by INS create any problems later on? (e.g., when I get my visa stamped in India, etc).

                                        Comment


                                        • BS? ~= 3 yr BSC + 2 yr PG Dip in Engg + M.Tech

                                          If requirement on Labor is Bachelors Degree or Equivalent in Maths, Physics or Engineering plus 2 yr exp. And the Alien has these qualification:

                                          5 Yr Exp plus:
                                          B.Sc(3 Yr) Maths & Physics + 2 Yr PG Diploma in Engineering (equivalent to M.Sc in India) from IIT + M.Tech in Engineering from Indian Institute of Technology
                                          What are the chances that NSC will Deny this case based on Not a Single 4 year Bachelors Degree?

                                          Can this Masters from institutes like IIT be a proof that Alien posses a Bachelors degree or more?

                                          Entery into M.Tech is based on a 4 yr Bachelors Degree or M.Sc.

                                          Or once the requirement on Labor says Bachelors then NSC does not care about higher degree like Masters or even P.HD (Doctors Degree) etc.
                                          EB2/India - NSC
                                          Priority Date: Dec 19, 2001
                                          I-485: RD: Feb 02, 2007, Approved on Nov 05, 2007 (both), Card Received on Nov 16, 2007
                                          LUDs: 2/09/07, 3/16/07, 3/17/07, 11/09/07, 11/10/07, 11/12/07, 11/13/07, 11/15/07
                                          NC Cleared: 9/26/07

                                          Derivative: Card Received on Nov 13, 2007
                                          LUD: 2/09/07, 3/16/07, 3/17/07, 11/12, 11/13, 11/14
                                          NC Cleared: June 2007

                                          Comment

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