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  • Citizenship claim for son

    I am an natural born american citizen, my mother and father are both natural born american citizens. I had a daughter and son, one american and one canadian both with same mother. My son now 27 and unmarried would like to file a citizenship claim if possible. He was born in Canada, although he lived in United States for about a year at age 1-2. I had him when I was 22 yrs old in wedlock and stayed married to his mother for 4-5 years. Does he have a claim and what is best route to get process started.

    Thanks in advance for any help with this.
    Last edited by Steve65; 20th May 2011, 09:03 PM.

  • #2
    Since no reply yet figured I would add to this.


    From all the details I have read on the interent, my son was born before 1986 to one US born parent in wedlock.

    On/after 12-24-52 and before 11-14-86 Both 1 parent resided in U.S. None
    Only 1 USC parent with 10 yrs physical presence in U.S. prior to your birth, at least 5 yrs. after parent's age 14


    So since I was born in the United States and stayed until I was 22 moving back to US in my 30's, so my son would qualify going by those rules.

    I also married his mother in United States so records proving this should not be issue, really just wondering if I have a good case for him and should we fill out paperwork ourself or have lawyer help for best outcome. Thanks

    Comment


    • #3
      Looks like he qualifies for acquired citizenship at birth, and can apply for N-600 and/or a US passport when he has the relevant documentation.

      But you will have to provide documents to prove that you lived in the US for the required number of years before his birth ... school records, etc. It may be difficult digging up those documents from 30+ years ago.

      EB3 ROW I-485 Approved: July 2007
      USC: July 2013
      I am a layman, not a lawyer. What I write here is not official or professional legal advice. In addition, my answers on this forum are specific to the scenarios discussed in each thread and should not be generalized to other situations.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jackolantern View Post
        Looks like he qualifies for acquired citizenship at birth, and can apply for N-600 and/or a US passport when he has the relevant documentation.

        But you will have to provide documents to prove that you lived in the US for the required number of years before his birth ... school records, etc. It may be difficult digging up those documents from 30+ years ago.
        Thanks for reply. My old high school is still around so I should be able to get some records atleast. What other type of records would help prove it?

        His sister who is 1 yr older was born in United States with same mother, would her official birth cerificate with my name on it and date/residence etc help? I don't know if I can get that old of tax returns to prove.

        Also reading the wording of 10yrs presence in United States before my son's birth and 5 yrs after 14th birthday. Now is that 5 yrs after my 14th birthday also have to be before my son's birth or anytime?

        Comment


        • #5
          The total of 10 years, as well as the 5 years after your 14th birthday, must all be before his birth. Doesn't have to be the last 5 or 10 years right before his birth; you can have a year here and there scattered through time, as long as it's 10 years total and 5 of the years are after your 14th birthday.

          If possible, try to supply more than the minimum 5 and 10 years, to provide a buffer for some of the reductions USCIS might apply. For example, if you submit a college transcript showing that you attended 2 semesters per year but didn't attend summer classes, they might only count 8 or 9 months per college year because you could have been abroad during the summer break. So if you provide evidence for 7 years beyond age 14 and 12 years overall, the application can survive them cutting down 1 or 2 years.

          EB3 ROW I-485 Approved: July 2007
          USC: July 2013
          I am a layman, not a lawyer. What I write here is not official or professional legal advice. In addition, my answers on this forum are specific to the scenarios discussed in each thread and should not be generalized to other situations.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jackolantern View Post
            The total of 10 years, as well as the 5 years after your 14th birthday, must all be before his birth. Doesn't have to be the last 5 or 10 years right before his birth; you can have a year here and there scattered through time, as long as it's 10 years total and 5 of the years are after your 14th birthday.

            If possible, try to supply more than the minimum 5 and 10 years, to provide a buffer for some of the reductions USCIS might apply. For example, if you submit a college transcript showing that you attended 2 semesters per year but didn't attend summer classes, they might only count 8 or 9 months per college year because you could have been abroad during the summer break. So if you provide evidence for 7 years beyond age 14 and 12 years overall, the application can survive them cutting down 1 or 2 years.
            Thanks for explaining that 5 years part. Overall if all my school records still exist I will have from kindergarten to grade 12. Overall I will have probably 15-16 yrs of records it's the years after my 18th birthday that will be hard to accumulate the 5yrs after 14th birthday. Not knowing what counts for proof is the toughest part.

            At any point will they take into account he has a sister who is american born with same mother, also my two brothers,my mother and father and my grandfathers all born in United States.

            Thanks alot for all the help.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Steve65 View Post
              At any point will they take into account he has a sister who is american born with same mother, also my two brothers,my mother and father and my grandfathers all born in United States.
              No. Medical records throughout her pregnancies could help with substantiating his mother's presence in the US, but he's not claiming citizenship through her, and those records say nothing about you. And the other relatives are irrelevant, unless something about them and your living arrangement with them can serve as documentary evidence of you being in the US (e.g. suppose you were living with your father on a military base -- the military would have records of you living there).

              Note that serving in the US military anywhere in the world counts as presence in the US for the 5 year/10 year requirement. So if you were in the military in the years between high school and your son's birth, obtaining those records would be fairly easy.

              Is your son inside or outside the US? If inside, does he have a green card? If you can't dig up the necessary evidence, he may have to satisfy the usual naturalization rule of living in the US for 5 years with a green card and filing N-400, interview and citizenship test etc.
              Last edited by Jackolantern; 22nd May 2011, 09:39 PM.

              EB3 ROW I-485 Approved: July 2007
              USC: July 2013
              I am a layman, not a lawyer. What I write here is not official or professional legal advice. In addition, my answers on this forum are specific to the scenarios discussed in each thread and should not be generalized to other situations.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jackolantern View Post
                No. Medical records throughout her pregnancies could help with substantiating his mother's presence in the US, but he's not claiming citizenship through her, and those records say nothing about you. And the other relatives are irrelevant, unless something about them and your living arrangement with them can serve as documentary evidence of you being in the US (e.g. suppose you were living with your father on a military base -- the military would have records of you living there).

                Note that serving in the US military anywhere in the world counts as presence in the US for the 5 year/10 year requirement. So if you were in the military in the years between high school and your son's birth, obtaining those records would be fairly easy.

                Is your son inside or outside the US? If inside, does he have a green card? If you can't dig up the necessary evidence, he may have to satisfy the usual naturalization rule of living in the US for 5 years with a green card and filing N-400, interview and citizenship test etc.
                Never applied for visa since he would only stay summers with me part of the custody. I know that he could apply the other way but at this time prefer the birth route. This would not be an issue if I had just registered the birth earlier in life for him.

                Thanks for all the help gave me some ideas for tracking down records. Will be trying to gather school records first, after that probably medical records and social security records.
                Last edited by Steve65; 23rd May 2011, 07:34 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What we are trying to do is to find your (steve65) records right? Would you happen to have your passport? I know many a times they do not stamp passport at Canadian border entry, but it might help.
                  GC: EB1: 1999 ==> 2004. 3 yr delay due to lost file. N400: San Jose. Apr'09 ==> Aug'09.
                  I am not a lawyer, forum police, moderator, moralizer or an immigration officer. If I sound like one, use "your" best judgement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jackolantern View Post
                    No. Medical records throughout her pregnancies could help with substantiating his mother's presence in the US, but he's not claiming citizenship through her, and those records say nothing about you.
                    His mother was a resident at time since we had been married a few years at that point, already having his sister. Also my son was conceived while in United States, went to doctor visits with my wife aswell. Would you say it's best to have a lawyer do all the work or should I get as much paperwork beforehand. I am sure the more documents ready the cheaper cost will be.


                    Originally posted by sanjoseaug20 View Post
                    What we are trying to do is to find your (steve65) records right? Would you happen to have your passport? I know many a times they do not stamp passport at Canadian border entry, but it might help.
                    They definately stamped it when I entered, also was the only time I ever left/re-entered the united states up to that point. With all the help I have received so far should have no problems getting enough records. Even SS records will show employment history and I can get copies all the way back.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Steve65 View Post
                      His mother was a resident at time since we had been married a few years at that point, already having his sister. Also my son was conceived while in United States, went to doctor visits with my wife aswell.
                      They won't accept that reasoning. Others have tried something similar and failed. Her medical records almost surely won't reflect your visits, and the Department of State is very nitpicking when it comes to claims of US citizenship decades after the fact.


                      Even SS records will show employment history and I can get copies all the way back.
                      They also usually reject SS records, unless you combine it with evidence that your work was done inside the US or the nature of the job is such that it could have been only done in the US (e.g. you were were a driver for a US taxi company or worked for the fire department of a US city).

                      EB3 ROW I-485 Approved: July 2007
                      USC: July 2013
                      I am a layman, not a lawyer. What I write here is not official or professional legal advice. In addition, my answers on this forum are specific to the scenarios discussed in each thread and should not be generalized to other situations.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jackolantern View Post
                        They won't accept that reasoning. Others have tried something similar and failed. Her medical records almost surely won't reflect your visits, and the Department of State is very nitpicking when it comes to claims of US citizenship decades after the fact.

                        They also usually reject SS records, unless you combine it with evidence that your work was done inside the US or the nature of the job is such that it could have been only done in the US (e.g. you were were a driver for a US taxi company or worked for the fire department of a US city).
                        Was able to get ahold of certified records from years K-8th grade and then 9-12th grade. So right now that is over the 10yrs and 1 year shy of 5yrs after 14. Failed to mention before but I did work for state as a park ranger before sons birth so should be able to use that. My son decided it was best to have lawyer prepare paperwork on his behalf since one mistake can drag this out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Steve65 View Post
                          Failed to mention before but I did work for state as a park ranger before sons birth so should be able to use that.
                          That's good, if that was for at least a year after your 18th birthday and you have evidence of that work.

                          My son decided it was best to have lawyer prepare paperwork on his behalf since one mistake can drag this out.
                          He is outside the US, correct? If outside, he cannot apply for N-600, he can only apply for a US passport. Then after moving to the US he can apply for the N-600. Although the N-600 is optional, it is highly advisable in his situation because if he ever loses the passport and never applied for N-600, they might make him have to dig up that big stack of old evidence all over again.

                          EB3 ROW I-485 Approved: July 2007
                          USC: July 2013
                          I am a layman, not a lawyer. What I write here is not official or professional legal advice. In addition, my answers on this forum are specific to the scenarios discussed in each thread and should not be generalized to other situations.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Check it: http://amsterdam.usconsulate.gov/proof2.html

                            They're open to creativity, apparently.
                            *** El Cafe ***

                            N400 - NYC (Brooklyn)
                            March 12 2010: Sent
                            April 7 2010: FP done- walk-in
                            August 3 2010: ID decision not made
                            December 12 2010: Lawsuit filed under 8 USC 1447(b)
                            March 31 2011: 31 Oath date
                            April 1 2011: Passport applied, picked up!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cafeconleche View Post
                              Check it: They're open to creativity, apparently.
                              Thanks for that link I was told they accept similar things. With records alone I will be able to prove my presence for him, but my ex-wife has alot of letters from me to her in Canada with US postmarks. Pictures aswell.
                              Last edited by Steve65; 30th May 2011, 07:29 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Jackolantern View Post
                                That's good, if that was for at least a year after your 18th birthday and you have evidence of that work.


                                He is outside the US, correct? If outside, he cannot apply for N-600, he can only apply for a US passport. Then after moving to the US he can apply for the N-600. Although the N-600 is optional, it is highly advisable in his situation because if he ever loses the passport and never applied for N-600, they might make him have to dig up that big stack of old evidence all over again.
                                Right now he is outside but will be visiting me soon for a month or more depending on time off. So N-600 has to be filed while in country?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Apparently. There's no hurry for that since you can get him a passport immediately.
                                  *** El Cafe ***

                                  N400 - NYC (Brooklyn)
                                  March 12 2010: Sent
                                  April 7 2010: FP done- walk-in
                                  August 3 2010: ID decision not made
                                  December 12 2010: Lawsuit filed under 8 USC 1447(b)
                                  March 31 2011: 31 Oath date
                                  April 1 2011: Passport applied, picked up!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Steve65 View Post
                                    Right now he is outside but will be visiting me soon for a month or more depending on time off. So N-600 has to be filed while in country?
                                    There is no requirement, as such, to be physically present in the U.S. at the time of filing N-600.
                                    However, the procedure for filing N-600 requires that it be filed with the local USCIS field office responsible for the applicant's place of residence:
                                    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...0048f3d6a1RCRD

                                    For people residing abroad, there is NO local USCIS field office responsible for their place of residence. So the de facto implication of the rules is that a U.S. home address (rather than a foreign home address) needs to be specified on N-600 in order for it to be considered.
                                    N-400 [Chicago office, via Nebraska Service Cntr]
                                    Rec'd date: 12/06/2006
                                    FP notice date: 12/20/2006
                                    FP taken (Indianapolis): 01/11/2007
                                    2nd FP notice 09/09/2008
                                    2ndFP taken (Indianapolis) 09/26/2008
                                    Interview letter 01/24/2009
                                    Interview 03/26/2009 (completed)
                                    Oath letter rec'd 04/29/09
                                    Oath date 05/14/09 (completed)
                                    U.S. pssprt applied and rec'd (Chicago pssprt agency) 05/22/2009

                                    I am not a lawyer. Anything I say here is my personal opinion and should not be viewed as legal advice.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Steve65 View Post
                                      Right now he is outside but will be visiting me soon for a month or more depending on time off. So N-600 has to be filed while in country?
                                      N-600 takes 2-6 months to process, whereas the passport is usually issued within a month. N-600 also has the requirement to be in the US for fingerprinting, and once again for a mini-oath. So regardless of the specific rules regarding US residence, it still makes sense to get the US passport before worrying too much about N-600.

                                      EB3 ROW I-485 Approved: July 2007
                                      USC: July 2013
                                      I am a layman, not a lawyer. What I write here is not official or professional legal advice. In addition, my answers on this forum are specific to the scenarios discussed in each thread and should not be generalized to other situations.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Jackolantern View Post
                                        N-600 takes 2-6 months to process, whereas the passport is usually issued within a month. N-600 also has the requirement to be in the US for fingerprinting, and once again for a mini-oath. So regardless of the specific rules regarding US residence, it still makes sense to get the US passport before worrying too much about N-600.
                                        Sorry if it's a dumb question, but what does getting a US passport for my son prove for him? basically just a good step towards filing N-600? Once again thanks for the help.

                                        Comment

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