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  • "Have you ever been removed, excluded or deported from the United States?"

    Quick question: when I applied for my Green Card abroad in Europe, I told them about a minor criminal record (I have another thread open regarding this). Initially, the consulate considered it 'moral turpitude' and they rejected a tourist visa I applied for pending my Green Card process.

    Throughout the process they discovered that my conviction actually was NOT moral turpitude and the consular office told me he was going to 'erase'/'clean' my record because of mistakes made on their end.

    Now my I am wondering about question: "26. Have you ever been removed, excluded or deported from the United States?"

    According to the consulate, they never should denied my tourist visa and they say they have corrected my records. On the other hand you can say that yes, I have (wrongfully) been excluded once by (once again wrongfully) denying me a tourist visa.

    Your thoughts?
    - 04/01: Mailed Application
    - 04/18: Check cashed
    - 05/14: Fingerprinted
    - 06/10: IL Received
    - 07/31: Interview
    - 07/31: Oath
    - 07/31: US CITIZEN!!!
    - 08/04: Passport Application (Expedited)
    - 08/12: Received Passport
    - 08/19: Changed SS Information
    - 08/25: Received new SS Card

    VSC/Newark, NJ FO

  • #2
    I would say answer is "yes", but include letter from consulate admitting their decision was wrong and explain circumstances at interview.
    Sent N-400 7/28/07
    PD 7/27/07
    Check cashed 12/5/07
    NOA 12/7/07
    FP notice 1/4/08 (received 1/10/08 )
    FP Date 1/30/08 (walk in done on 1/26/08 Charlotte)
    IL: 6/10/08
    ID: 8/28/08 (Durham DO) Passed!
    OL: 9/23/08
    OD: 10/06/08
    PP: 10/21/08 (applied)
    PP: 11/1/08 (received)
    ------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------
    IMPORTANT NOTE: I am a Volunteer Moderator - one of you. I am not a lawyer. So act accordingly.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by realexm View Post
      Quick question: when I applied for my Green Card abroad in Europe, I told them about a minor criminal record (I have another thread open regarding this). Initially, the consulate considered it 'moral turpitude' and they rejected a tourist visa I applied for pending my Green Card process.

      Throughout the process they discovered that my conviction actually was NOT moral turpitude and the consular office told me he was going to 'erase'/'clean' my record because of mistakes made on their end.

      Now my I am wondering about question: "26. Have you ever been removed, excluded or deported from the United States?"

      According to the consulate, they never should denied my tourist visa and they say they have corrected my records. On the other hand you can say that yes, I have (wrongfully) been excluded once by (once again wrongfully) denying me a tourist visa.

      Your thoughts?
      Yes, I agree. I would say yes. Think about this situation: if you were thrown in jail because you were being persecuted by some political group and even though in the eyes of the law you were defending your freedom or whatnot and it was wrongful to be thrown in jail, how would you answer the question "have you ever been to jail"? Of course, yes, and then you would explain what happened. Same in this case as well. That's just my thinking.
      ------------------------------------
      DO: Newark, NJ
      N-400 mailed to Lewisville, TX: 5/22/09
      N-400 received: 5/26/09
      NOA mailed: 5/26/09 (received two identical NOAs)
      PD: 5/26/09
      Check cashed: 5/28/09
      FP Notice received: 6/8/09
      FP Walk-in completed: 6/16/09
      FP Appointment: 6/26/09
      CFR Yellow Letter received: 8/10/09 (dated 8/5/09)
      Received IL: 8/17/09
      ID: 10/5/09 at 9 am

      IMPORTANT NOTE: I am a Volunteer Moderator. I am not a lawyer. So act accordingly.

      Comment


      • #4
        My opinion is to answer it as "no" since you were never admitted to the US.

        Originally posted by realexm View Post
        Now my I am wondering about question: "26. Have you ever been removed, excluded or deported from the United States?"
        Regards,
        S K Ghori
        skg@vex.net
        http://www.vex.net/~skg/

        **NOTE**
        I underwent the immigration process in both Canada and the US. I hold Pakistani, Canadian and US citizenship.

        **DISCLAIMER**
        I am neither a lawyer nor an immigration consultant. My comments should NEVER be considered as legal or professional advice as they are not meant to be such.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Triple Citizen View Post
          My opinion is to answer it as "no" since you were never admitted to the US.
          If you're excluded you would never have been admitted in the first place, so the answer would still be "yes".
          Sent N-400 7/28/07
          PD 7/27/07
          Check cashed 12/5/07
          NOA 12/7/07
          FP notice 1/4/08 (received 1/10/08 )
          FP Date 1/30/08 (walk in done on 1/26/08 Charlotte)
          IL: 6/10/08
          ID: 8/28/08 (Durham DO) Passed!
          OL: 9/23/08
          OD: 10/06/08
          PP: 10/21/08 (applied)
          PP: 11/1/08 (received)
          ------------------------------------------

          ------------------------------------
          IMPORTANT NOTE: I am a Volunteer Moderator - one of you. I am not a lawyer. So act accordingly.

          Comment


          • #6
            The OP was refused a visitor's visa. The key would would be the refusal code. Otherwise all applicants who ever got a 214(b) would have to answer yes to this question.


            Originally posted by Bobsmyth View Post
            If you're excluded you would never have been admitted in the first place, so the answer would still be "yes".
            Regards,
            S K Ghori
            skg@vex.net
            http://www.vex.net/~skg/

            **NOTE**
            I underwent the immigration process in both Canada and the US. I hold Pakistani, Canadian and US citizenship.

            **DISCLAIMER**
            I am neither a lawyer nor an immigration consultant. My comments should NEVER be considered as legal or professional advice as they are not meant to be such.

            Comment


            • #7
              Shouldn't all this 'consular information' be in my INS file to begin with and shouldn't the IO have reviewed it in advance? Just curious....

              Does it makes sense to explain the background to the IO during the interview and ask what according to him/her the proper way to answer this question is? I am still confused why the IO should not have all this information...
              - 04/01: Mailed Application
              - 04/18: Check cashed
              - 05/14: Fingerprinted
              - 06/10: IL Received
              - 07/31: Interview
              - 07/31: Oath
              - 07/31: US CITIZEN!!!
              - 08/04: Passport Application (Expedited)
              - 08/12: Received Passport
              - 08/19: Changed SS Information
              - 08/25: Received new SS Card

              VSC/Newark, NJ FO

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Triple Citizen View Post
                The OP was refused a visitor's visa. The key would would be the refusal code. Otherwise all applicants who ever got a 214(b) would have to answer yes to this question.
                The refusal code would be 'Being involved in a crime involving moral turpitude' (or something similar). But then again, the consular office cleared my name.

                They actually told me they send a request to the (I believe) European IRS HQ in Germany to do this name clearance; this process took about 2 weeks. Immediately afterwards I received my Green Card paper/envelop.

                My major concern on one hand is that I do not want to lie on my application but on the other hand also do not want to raise any unnecessary red flags.
                - 04/01: Mailed Application
                - 04/18: Check cashed
                - 05/14: Fingerprinted
                - 06/10: IL Received
                - 07/31: Interview
                - 07/31: Oath
                - 07/31: US CITIZEN!!!
                - 08/04: Passport Application (Expedited)
                - 08/12: Received Passport
                - 08/19: Changed SS Information
                - 08/25: Received new SS Card

                VSC/Newark, NJ FO

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Triple Citizen View Post
                  The OP was refused a visitor's visa. The key would would be the refusal code. Otherwise all applicants who ever got a 214(b) would have to answer yes to this question.
                  Correct, but the OP indicated that he was denied (albeit incorrectly) a visa based on a CIMT (8 USC 1182 2 (A)). This means he was specifically found inadmissible at the time based on excludability, and not on illegibility like others who ever got 214(b).
                  Sent N-400 7/28/07
                  PD 7/27/07
                  Check cashed 12/5/07
                  NOA 12/7/07
                  FP notice 1/4/08 (received 1/10/08 )
                  FP Date 1/30/08 (walk in done on 1/26/08 Charlotte)
                  IL: 6/10/08
                  ID: 8/28/08 (Durham DO) Passed!
                  OL: 9/23/08
                  OD: 10/06/08
                  PP: 10/21/08 (applied)
                  PP: 11/1/08 (received)
                  ------------------------------------------

                  ------------------------------------
                  IMPORTANT NOTE: I am a Volunteer Moderator - one of you. I am not a lawyer. So act accordingly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Since the exclusion/denial was in error and should not have been done in the first place, am guessing the answer should be no. I thought that qn was meant to see if the applicant was sent out of teh US after entry.
                    N400 CSC/San Jose DO
                    PD : Aug 17 2006
                    FP date: walk in on Sep 16th/ sched for Sep 20
                    IV @ San jose do : Feb 15 2007
                    oath letter: Feb 24th
                    oath: Mar 21st 2007, became USC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bobsmyth View Post
                      Correct, but the OP indicated that he was denied (albeit incorrectly) a visa based on a CIMT (8 USC 1182 2 (A)). This means he was specifically found inadmissible at the time based on excludability, and not on illegibility like others who ever got 214(b).
                      Bob, thanks for your insight. Does this mean that according to you I should answer 'Yes' to this question, even although INS has admitted they have been mistaken?
                      - 04/01: Mailed Application
                      - 04/18: Check cashed
                      - 05/14: Fingerprinted
                      - 06/10: IL Received
                      - 07/31: Interview
                      - 07/31: Oath
                      - 07/31: US CITIZEN!!!
                      - 08/04: Passport Application (Expedited)
                      - 08/12: Received Passport
                      - 08/19: Changed SS Information
                      - 08/25: Received new SS Card

                      VSC/Newark, NJ FO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by aabbcc11 View Post
                        Since the exclusion/denial was in error and should not have been done in the first place, am guessing the answer should be no. I thought that qn was meant to see if the applicant was sent out of teh US after entry.
                        Excluded means you are barred from entering the US whereas deportation means removal from the US. Since OP was excluded by denial of a visa based on CIMT, I would think the answer would be "yes".
                        Sent N-400 7/28/07
                        PD 7/27/07
                        Check cashed 12/5/07
                        NOA 12/7/07
                        FP notice 1/4/08 (received 1/10/08 )
                        FP Date 1/30/08 (walk in done on 1/26/08 Charlotte)
                        IL: 6/10/08
                        ID: 8/28/08 (Durham DO) Passed!
                        OL: 9/23/08
                        OD: 10/06/08
                        PP: 10/21/08 (applied)
                        PP: 11/1/08 (received)
                        ------------------------------------------

                        ------------------------------------
                        IMPORTANT NOTE: I am a Volunteer Moderator - one of you. I am not a lawyer. So act accordingly.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bobsmyth View Post
                          Excluded means you are barred from entering the US whereas deportation means removal from the US. Since OP was excluded by denial of a visa based on CIMT, I would think the answer would be "yes".
                          But I think that the key here is that I was excluded by mistake (so it never should have happened). The consular officer mentioned to me that the 'correction' they places in the system erased all records from any previous entries linked to my name.

                          Does it makes sense to discuss this situation with the IO and see what his/her recommendations are? I'm not even sure how the interview works and to what extend the IO will assist applicants with the application.
                          - 04/01: Mailed Application
                          - 04/18: Check cashed
                          - 05/14: Fingerprinted
                          - 06/10: IL Received
                          - 07/31: Interview
                          - 07/31: Oath
                          - 07/31: US CITIZEN!!!
                          - 08/04: Passport Application (Expedited)
                          - 08/12: Received Passport
                          - 08/19: Changed SS Information
                          - 08/25: Received new SS Card

                          VSC/Newark, NJ FO

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by realexm View Post
                            But I think that the key here is that I was excluded by mistake (so it never should have happened). The consular officer mentioned to me that the 'correction' they places in the system erased all records from any previous entries linked to my name.

                            Does it makes sense to discuss this situation with the IO and see what his/her recommendations are? I'm not even sure how the interview works and to what extend the IO will assist applicants with the application.
                            That's why you would explain the circumstances behind the consulate's error if you choose to answer "yes", instead of relying on what the consular officer told you about how the system erases any decisions based on error and answer "no". It seems like a gray area, since it can be interpreted either way. Have you tried calling the consulate to see if they can send you a letter explaining the circumstances behind the denial?
                            Sent N-400 7/28/07
                            PD 7/27/07
                            Check cashed 12/5/07
                            NOA 12/7/07
                            FP notice 1/4/08 (received 1/10/08 )
                            FP Date 1/30/08 (walk in done on 1/26/08 Charlotte)
                            IL: 6/10/08
                            ID: 8/28/08 (Durham DO) Passed!
                            OL: 9/23/08
                            OD: 10/06/08
                            PP: 10/21/08 (applied)
                            PP: 11/1/08 (received)
                            ------------------------------------------

                            ------------------------------------
                            IMPORTANT NOTE: I am a Volunteer Moderator - one of you. I am not a lawyer. So act accordingly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by realexm View Post
                              Now my I am wondering about question: "26. Have you ever been removed, excluded or deported from the United States?"

                              According to the consulate, they never should denied my tourist visa and they say they have corrected my records. On the other hand you can say that yes, I have (wrongfully) been excluded once by (once again wrongfully) denying me a tourist visa.

                              Your thoughts?
                              You were refused a visa, yes. But that's not what they are asking. They are asking if you were removed, excluded or deported. These all essentially mean that you were forcibly made to leave the country.

                              These are legal terms of art, defined in the INA. "Excluded" does not have the common sense meaning you are ascribing to it.

                              My view: the correct answer is no.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                u can say Yes, and attach explanation and any evidence of conclusion.
                                That way ur being 100% truthful.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by orangeandwhite View Post
                                  You were refused a visa, yes. But that's not what they are asking. They are asking if you were removed, excluded or deported. These all essentially mean that you were forcibly made to leave the country.

                                  These are legal terms of art, defined in the INA. "Excluded" does not have the common sense meaning you are ascribing to it.

                                  My view: the correct answer is no.
                                  So excluded does not mean 'visa denied'?
                                  - 04/01: Mailed Application
                                  - 04/18: Check cashed
                                  - 05/14: Fingerprinted
                                  - 06/10: IL Received
                                  - 07/31: Interview
                                  - 07/31: Oath
                                  - 07/31: US CITIZEN!!!
                                  - 08/04: Passport Application (Expedited)
                                  - 08/12: Received Passport
                                  - 08/19: Changed SS Information
                                  - 08/25: Received new SS Card

                                  VSC/Newark, NJ FO

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by CrossHairs View Post
                                    u can say Yes, and attach explanation and any evidence of conclusion.
                                    That way ur being 100% truthful.
                                    Thanks. I am calling the consulate tomorrow, but I don't have high hopes of any explanation from their end. My experiences in the past have been extremely positive with the 'real' consular officers, but extremely negative with the 'local' consulate personnel.
                                    - 04/01: Mailed Application
                                    - 04/18: Check cashed
                                    - 05/14: Fingerprinted
                                    - 06/10: IL Received
                                    - 07/31: Interview
                                    - 07/31: Oath
                                    - 07/31: US CITIZEN!!!
                                    - 08/04: Passport Application (Expedited)
                                    - 08/12: Received Passport
                                    - 08/19: Changed SS Information
                                    - 08/25: Received new SS Card

                                    VSC/Newark, NJ FO

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Like Orange says, I thought that qn meant -- have you been deported at taxpayer charge? I do not know for certain. My pers op is that this is a non issue which you chould explain to the IO at the time of interview; for the time being answer NO on the n400. That's what I would do I guess.

                                      Good luck, calling a consulate and expecting help is really expecting miracles.
                                      N400 CSC/San Jose DO
                                      PD : Aug 17 2006
                                      FP date: walk in on Sep 16th/ sched for Sep 20
                                      IV @ San jose do : Feb 15 2007
                                      oath letter: Feb 24th
                                      oath: Mar 21st 2007, became USC

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by aabbcc11 View Post
                                        Good luck, calling a consulate and expecting help is really expecting miracles.


                                        Just a quick update: I tried calling the consulate but their hours are 8-12. And this is GMT time.... So I have to get up early tomorrow.
                                        - 04/01: Mailed Application
                                        - 04/18: Check cashed
                                        - 05/14: Fingerprinted
                                        - 06/10: IL Received
                                        - 07/31: Interview
                                        - 07/31: Oath
                                        - 07/31: US CITIZEN!!!
                                        - 08/04: Passport Application (Expedited)
                                        - 08/12: Received Passport
                                        - 08/19: Changed SS Information
                                        - 08/25: Received new SS Card

                                        VSC/Newark, NJ FO

                                        Comment

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