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OATH NEXT WEEK ! New York City

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  • OATH NEXT WEEK ! New York City

    NYC Timeline:
    N-400 mailed: 9/10/04
    FP: 10/11/04
    Interview: 10/07/05
    Oath: 10/21/05.
    13 months from mailing my N-400, FP, Interview and Oath.

    Now I am wondering if I could still travel on my birth country's passport (which is still valid for travel) after my Oath next week. Is it legal?

    Or, am I required by law to get the US Passport if I want to travel out of USA?

  • #2
    Congrats on the quick turnover from interview to oath.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by izh114
      NYC Timeline:
      N-400 mailed: 9/10/04
      FP: 10/11/04
      Interview: 10/07/05
      Oath: 10/21/05.
      13 months from mailing my N-400, FP, Interview and Oath.

      Now I am wondering if I could still travel on my birth country's passport (which is still valid for travel) after my Oath next week. Is it legal?

      Or, am I required by law to get the US Passport if I want to travel out of USA?
      There are two issues here.

      1) Old Passport: Whether you can use it or not depends on the laws of the country who issued it. Depending on the country, you may lose their citizenship/nationality (often immediatelly by the effect of law) and thus the passport would be invalid even if it looks unexpired. Check that country's laws.

      2) US: Since you will be a US citizen, you must exit and enter the USA as such, which means in most cases that you should have a US passport.

      Comment


      • #4
        Do not travel on a foreign passport once you become a U.S. citizen. The person who administered our oath and ceremony said that if you do that you might leave the country but you won' get back in.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by gatorcountry
          Do not travel on a foreign passport once you become a U.S. citizen. The person who administered our oath and ceremony said that if you do that you might leave the country but you won' get back in.
          That's simply not true. There are only a few causes to lose US citizenship, and keeping your old citizenship is simply not among them.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by gatorcountry
            Do not travel on a foreign passport once you become a U.S. citizen. The person who administered our oath and ceremony said that if you do that you might leave the country but you won' get back in.
            i believe the person who administered your oath actually meant if you travelled your foreign passport back to US, even thought you are a US citizen, you would not get back to the country; which it is true.

            you can go out with any valid passport if you want to, however, as a US citizen, you have to have a valid US passport to come back to US.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sand Diego
              That's simply not true. There are only a few causes to lose US citizenship, and keeping your old citizenship is simply not among them.
              I would be careful with that. Part of the citizenship oath is a promise to give up allegiences to any other country. Hence by keeping your old passport, you are breaking the oath. I don't think the government actively pursues stripping people of citizenship based on keeping their former country's citizenship, but I don't see why they cannot start at any point. Of course it would have to be a proper legal process in court - but it can happen. So I would think that to fully protect yourself, one is better to give up their former citizenship.

              Comment


              • #8
                http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1753.html

                U.S. Department of State view on the Dual Citizenship

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ocworker
                  i believe the person who administered your oath actually meant if you travelled your foreign passport back to US, even thought you are a US citizen, you would not get back to the country; which it is true.

                  you can go out with any valid passport if you want to, however, as a US citizen, you have to have a valid US passport to come back to US.
                  As a U.S. Citizen, you are required by LAW to leave and enter the country (USA) with a US passport only (see the link I posted before in this thread).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JoeF
                    Hmm, no.
                    Other countries don't necessarily care what you say in front of US officials. For example, if you are a citizen of the UK, even after the oath, the UK still considers you to be their citizen. You would have to give up UK citizenship in front of UK officials. Similarly with Canada and other countries..
                    That would require a major change in policy, and is unlikely to happen. For example, what would they do with people who have US citizenship by birth and citizenship of some other country through their parents? I know people who have 3 citizenships by birth...

                    The US Supreme Court has ruled that the government can not strip a US citizen of their citizenship unless the person has actively stated the desire to give up US citizenship. Because of this, the so-called American Taliban kept his US citizenship, for example...
                    Nope. See Rich Wales' excellent Dual Citizenship FAQ: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
                    1. US Citizenship by birth doesn't count obviously - if you're born in the US, you're a citizen, period. The only way to not be a US citizen in that case would be to give it up. The crux of the matter here is the oath of citizenship where you PROMISE UNDER OATH that you will abrogate existing allegiances. I know it's a bit fuzzy and a question for the lawyers where the former country requires a drawn out process as some do - ie if you have to pay a fee, wait for a prolonged period, etc - but if the process is straight-forward I think the law expects you to abrogate former citizenship. Some countries of course never allow you to abrogate citizenship by birth - and if you're on their territory and were born there, you're considered a citizen. Some countries automatically strip you of citizenship if you obtain one from another country.

                    2. In general it is hard to strip someone of US citizenship, acquired or native-born. But it is possible if one acquired citizenship fraudulently. Classic example is the Nazi war criminal who was denaturalized a few years ago for hiding the fact that he was a collaborator during WW2. How material of a fraud this would have to be I don't know. Probably lying about speeding tickets is not going to do it but who knows. However I think courts could consider breaking your citizenship oath to be material enough to strip you of citizenship if the political climate in the country is conducive (ie anti-immigrant sentiment).

                    3. Policies change. I also know some people who have kept their citizenships after naturalizing in the US. None of them currently has any problems. All I'm saying though is that policies CAN change and it's a matter of each person's risk assessment in life to determine if they want to take the risk. As an example of policies changing, keep in mind that as recently as a decade or two ago one could not move away from the US for a year after becoming a US citizen.

                    4. As an aside, since US allows multiple citizenships with some caveats (I think serving in another coutry's military as an officer is not allowed, etc), it is perfectly OK to obtain another citizenship AFTER becoming a US citizen. Again, the crux of the matter and relevant to this forum is the fact that when you naturalize, you promise under oath to give up your present allegiances.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the simpliest way to solve the issue is,

                      get the US passport after oath, and travel with it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JoeF
                        Yes, but they don't force you nor can that to go to your other country of citizenship and relinquish that. Some countries require that you give up all other citizenship before taking their citizenship (e.g., Germany.) That's ok. But they can't do anything after the fact.
                        No, the law does not. And in fact it can't, because that would be interference with other countries. US law and US jurisdiction ends at the US border.
                        A completely different thing. The position of the law is that in such cases, US citizenship and possibly Permanent Residency was never aquired, because of the fraud.
                        How is not going to your old country and relinquish your old citizenship "breaking the oath"? Assume a person who got the GC through asylum. His old country still considers him a citizen, and requires that he appears before officials in that country. If he did that, he would probably be arrested, tortured, etc.. After all, the fear of that was the reason for him applying for asylum in the US. So, a US court decision would result in a US citizen being imprisoned, possibly tortured, and murdered... Not going to happen.
                        That's another thing why forcing people to give up other citizenships is a bad idea. Some countries don't allow giving up their citizenship without service in the military (I think Turkey is such an example.)
                        The crux of the matter is that whatever you promise, such a promise does not force other countries to follow it. US jurisdiction ends at the US border.
                        Yes, of course US cannot force another country to stop considering you a citizen. However I believe the fact that you gave an oath to abrogate current allegiances requires one to try. If the other country says 'no way, you're our citizen because you were born here' then neither you nor the US government can do anything about it. All I'm saying is that if after having promised under oath that you will give up current allegiances to other sovereigns one does not in fact at least try to do so, this may be interpreted by the US government as having committed fraud in acquiring citizenship (the oath is part of the acquisition process) - just like lying about arrests or being a Nazi war criminal, etc. I am not suggesting that keeping your former citizenship is morally ANYTHING like being a Nazi war criminal by the way.

                        The fact is, above represents my beliefs based on what I read on the Internet - not any hard legal research. So maybe I am misinterpreting the law ... Would be nice to hear some other opinions besides mine and ****'s.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JoeF
                          Hmm, no. With the oath, you are not "promising" to give up other citizenships or trying to, you are stating that you don't have allegiance to other countries. The oath does not say nor imply that you have to try to to convince the old country to release you from being their citizen.
                          No, that's quite different. That is about actions a person did in the past. What you are suggesting is actions in the future.
                          Of course, the US could impose a requirement that you show that you have given up your old citizenship before they give you US citizenship. That's what some other countries do. But when they give you US citizenship, it is not conditional on some future action.
                          I don't know where you read that, but it is wrong.
                          Rich Wales in his Dual Citizenship FAQ has collected quite a lot of legal information about this.
                          OK ****. I will do some legal research and if I find out any more info to support either mine or your argument I will post. You have a strong argument but I am just not 100% convinced ...

                          Comment

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