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  • good moral character

    hi all,

    i've just joined here few hours ago, i wish i would have known this forum....

    anyways, it looks like nobody mentioned about the issue with "The person with good moral character."

    like few of you have already read my replies regarding to my US citizenship issue, my US citizenship application got thrown out because of the lack of good moral character.
    i went to the interview and passed all tests and what not, but the officer was holding on the decision, because of the traffic tickets that i had.

    my traffic tickets represented that i didn't have a good moral character, god knows how they could have linked those two different issues together.
    quote,
    "We(US INS) have to deny your US citizenship application due to your lack of good moral character. We(US INS) don't like your idea of commiting traffic infractions and just resolving them via paying fines for those tickets. You can't be doing this in this country. Please re-apply after 5yrs without no driving infractions."

    anyways, what i'm trying to say here is that just to give you guys heads-up to not falling into the "lack of good moral character."

    nice to meet with ya'll and good luck with everything!
    Last edited by waapples; 26th January 2008, 07:01 PM.

  • #2
    Thanks for your sharing. This could be a issue for many people. IC

    Comment


    • #3
      waapples,

      Are you sure you were quoting a USCIS memo, or did you use your own words? I'm not sure if they can say things like "you cannot do that in this country" in an official context like naturalization. Are you sure that that was the only reason your application was rejected? Can you please share with us the exact wording of the rejection letter?

      Thanks.

      Comment


      • #4
        Can you please post the number of tickets you got in the past 5 years?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DodoDi
          waapples,
          Are you sure you were quoting a USCIS memo? I'm not sure if they can say things like "you cannot do that in this country" in an official context like naturalization. Are you sure that that was the only reason your application was rejected? Can you please share with us the exact wording of the rejection letter?
          Thanks.
          Yes, that was what the USCIS officer told me while I was sitting in the office, of course, they wouldn't write that memo on the official rejection letter.
          Oh, one more issue I had to deal was that they(USCIS) accused me on the fact that I was arrested before, which is total BS. (At least that was stated on the official rejection letter.)
          I even went to the state patrol office and city police offices to pull out my personal record which would show my arrest history. I've already sent them an original letter w/ a good phat phrase saying that "We don't have any arrest record for this individual."
          I even told them to go find out whether I have been arrested or not, oh wait a minute, thought they would screen applicants prior to the intervew, right? I meant if i've been arrested in this country, I probably wouldn't have a chance to have the interview at all.
          So basically, the official rejection letter was stating that I had too many traffic tickets and was arrested; and friendly reminder saying that I need to be clean for next 5yrs of everything before I can re-apply.



          Originally posted by ThelastMile
          Can you please post the number of tickets you got in the past 5 years?
          2 speeding tickets
          1 following too closely ticket
          1 negligent driving 2nd degree ticket
          1 fail to yield left turn
          = total# of 5 outstanding tickets at the time when I filled out the application.



          Originally posted by JoeF
          If you have a lot of traffic tickets over the years, that of course looks different than just the occasional one. In particular, it establishes that you don't care too much about traffic laws, and examiners of course can take issue with that.
          It also depends on what kind of tickets these were. Things like reckless driving, or DUI and the like, are bad.
          Well, the question is that how does my driving record represents my moral character? Does this mean that all peeps on the road who get traffic tickets are all people with bad moral character? Guess how many Americans are out there receving traffic tickets in daily basis.
          I believe that I've been living my life with a good moral so far, meaning that I don't throw garbage on the roads, always recycle & separate the waste, don't waste electricity, have never had an enemy in my life, and etc....
          Doesn't the law clearly stated that they look for the person with a "GOOD" moral character? not a person with "PERFECT" moral character?

          Well, what can I say? I should just shut my mouth and just wait for my turn, right? hahahahahaha!
          I still love this country!!!!
          The whole idea behind this post was to remind people about the "good moral character."
          That's all~~
          Last edited by waapples; 26th January 2008, 06:43 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by waapples
            ....So basically, the official rejection letter was stating that I had too many traffic tickets and was arrested; and friendly reminder saying that I need to be clean for next 5yrs of everything before I can re-apply....
            ~~
            Since you believe the written statement "...was arrested" is factually wrong you can ask for a review and have an attorney represent you. Even ACLU may be interested in something like this. On the other hand "morals" is a variable which varies with time and religious and personal convictions of the person. It may well be that as per the officer's belief since most(?) people might have 1 or 2 traffic tickets in their life time, so 5 tickets in a span of 5 years may as per him/her indicate a lack of respect for the law. If you are in no hurry for the citizenship you might as well wait.

            Comment


            • #7
              Waapples: Thanks you for sharing from the bottom of my heart. If you were never arrested, you absoluately have every right to get a answer from them why they put "...was arrested" in the reject letter no matter whater. ic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by immigrationcom
                Waapples: Thanks you for sharing from the bottom of my heart. If you were never arrested, you absoluately have every right to get a answer from them why they put "...was arrested" in the reject letter no matter whater. ic

                well, they claimed that i said i was arrested during the interview, which is total BS! wish they have some sort of audio record of my interview, or the USCIS officer doesn't know how to speak proper English..... who knows...

                but yeah, i'm just waiting & waiting...... hopefully they don't pop out the same issue and reject me when i re-apply next time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Waapples:

                  Thank you veru much for sharing your experience with us. Do you mind giving more info?

                  1) Why did you say that you was arrested if you was not, at least no arrest record shows that?

                  2) Did you get your driving record from the state DMV office before you applied? You said that you had "total# of 5 outstanding tickets at the time when I filled out the application"? What is an Outstanding Ticket"? Is the one showed on the report?

                  3) What is a 2nd drgree ticket? How do you know that? Have you kept all tickets or you got the ticket info from some where (Where should it be)?

                  Again, thank you veru much for your sharing. Hope you will be OK next time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by newman2
                    Waapples:

                    Thank you veru much for sharing your experience with us. Do you mind giving more info?

                    1) Why did you say that you was arrested if you was not, at least no arrest record shows that?

                    2) Did you get your driving record from the state DMV office before you applied? You said that you had "total# of 5 outstanding tickets at the time when I filled out the application"? What is an Outstanding Ticket"? Is the one showed on the report?

                    3) What is a 2nd drgree ticket? How do you know that? Have you kept all tickets or you got the ticket info from some where (Where should it be)?

                    Again, thank you veru much for your sharing. Hope you will be OK next time.
                    Outstanding means it has not been disposed yet.

                    The original poster please don't get offended if I am wrong.
                    I suspect this is not a real story
                    2009/03/20 - N-400 Filed
                    2009/03/25 - RD and PD
                    2009/03/30 - Notice of Action Date
                    2009/03/31 - Check Cashed
                    2009/04/04 - NOA received
                    2009/04/06 - FP letter received
                    2009/04/28 - FP appointment done
                    2009/05/11 - Interview NOA
                    2009/06/01 - Got Case Review File (yellow letter)
                    2009/06/15 - Interview Descheduled
                    2009/07/08 - Interview (10:20AM)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AmericanWannabe
                      The original poster please don't get offended if I am wrong.
                      I suspect this is not a real story
                      well my man, i was very confused about this issue (along with my lawyer). i understand how confused you are now after reading my post....

                      hahahah, why in da hell i'm wasting my time here if this ain't true?
                      well it's your own choice to believe my story or not, we are living in the free country man!


                      Originally posted by newman2
                      1) Why did you say that you was arrested if you was not, at least no arrest record shows that?

                      2) Did you get your driving record from the state DMV office before you applied? You said that you had "total# of 5 outstanding tickets at the time when I filled out the application"? What is an Outstanding Ticket"? Is the one showed on the report?
                      1. no i didn't, the officer kept asking me whether i've been arrested or not due to the negligent driving 2nd degree ticket that i got, but i clearly stated that "NO" but the officer just made his/her own decision w/o any proof.

                      2. yes, i got my driving record from the state DMV office, i also submitted that along with my application.


                      like what my lawyer has told me.....
                      if they make any type of mistake, then it's my job to fix their mistake by providing them enough evidence.
                      my case is still being reviewd by the court.
                      Last edited by waapples; 8th December 2004, 02:46 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by waapples
                        well my man, i was very confused about this issue (along with my lawyer). i understand how confused you are now after reading my post....

                        hahahah, why in da hell i'm wasting my time here if this ain't true?
                        well it's your own choice to believe my story or not, we are living in the free country man!

                        Because your style is vey much like that of GCLOCKUP

                        I have some thoughts about how to show you
                        have good moral charcaters. My suggestions are

                        (1) Join some non-controversial charity organization
                        and list them on the N400 form which ask
                        you to list the organization you joined anyway
                        (2) Make donations to charity and list them on your
                        Chedule A of tax return
                        (3) Get a organ donator sticker on your DL
                        and show your DL together with your GC
                        at the time of interview (or submit
                        a copy of yoru DL with your application pakage anyway)

                        It is too bad we can not get an organ donor sticker
                        on our GC
                        (4) Sit on the bank of a river and wait for someone
                        to fall in and then scopp him out and become
                        a hero.
                        2009/03/20 - N-400 Filed
                        2009/03/25 - RD and PD
                        2009/03/30 - Notice of Action Date
                        2009/03/31 - Check Cashed
                        2009/04/04 - NOA received
                        2009/04/06 - FP letter received
                        2009/04/28 - FP appointment done
                        2009/05/11 - Interview NOA
                        2009/06/01 - Got Case Review File (yellow letter)
                        2009/06/15 - Interview Descheduled
                        2009/07/08 - Interview (10:20AM)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          AmericanWannabe: Thanks for your suggestions. IC

                          Originally posted by AmericanWannabe
                          (1) Join some non-controversial charity organization
                          and list them on the N400 form which ask
                          you to list the organization you joined anyway
                          Can you give a example of this kind of organization?

                          (3) Get a organ donator sticker on your DL
                          and show your DL together with your GC
                          at the time of interview (or submit
                          a copy of yoru DL with your application pakage anyway)
                          What's DL?

                          It is too bad we can not get an organ donor sticker
                          on our GC
                          (4) Sit on the bank of a river and wait for someone
                          to fall in and then scopp him out and become
                          a hero.
                          This is a good idea if you CAN swim.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AmericanWannabe
                            (4) Sit on the bank of a river and wait for someone
                            to fall in and then scopp him out and become
                            a hero.

                            I love this one ... hahahahhahaha...
                            -------------------------------------------------
                            Al
                            http://notbornhere.com
                            A must read blog for all people that have not been born here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by immigrationcom
                              AmericanWannabe: Thanks for your suggestions. IC

                              Can you give a example of this kind of organization?
                              There are many charity like Special Olympics,
                              Diabetics Association, Children cancer whatever.
                              Or at least you know United Way.
                              Given current patrioct attitude of Americans,
                              maybe AmVet is a good one too.

                              Of course, stay away from Muslim
                              Charity for the time being for obviousl reasons
                              Noadays, even with Mohamed as middle
                              name can ofen delay your entry process.

                              MADD is not a good one either. One
                              CIS officer may be against your
                              having too many traffic tickets but
                              another may often drink and drive
                              himself.
                              2009/03/20 - N-400 Filed
                              2009/03/25 - RD and PD
                              2009/03/30 - Notice of Action Date
                              2009/03/31 - Check Cashed
                              2009/04/04 - NOA received
                              2009/04/06 - FP letter received
                              2009/04/28 - FP appointment done
                              2009/05/11 - Interview NOA
                              2009/06/01 - Got Case Review File (yellow letter)
                              2009/06/15 - Interview Descheduled
                              2009/07/08 - Interview (10:20AM)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                With all due respect to waapples, this story has too many inconsistencies to be believable.

                                (1) You said you are waiting for your turn and will re-apply, and in another post said that your case is still in court.
                                (2) In one post you advised applicants to have an attorney represent them so they wouldn't face your dilemma, and in another you said the situation confused your lawyer.
                                (3) I don't buy that an INS officer will accuse you of something that is not true or jump to conclusions based on non-factual evidence. And I don't think that a naturalization case can simply be rejected because of the mood of the officer or some assumptions s/he's made. The case has to be reviewed by a higher-ranking officer, who'll check the facts, before a rejection letter is sent.

                                My $0.02.
                                Dodi

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Anyone seriously listening to AmericanWannabe needs his/her head checked. Do not pay attention to this mindless drivel. This guy is good for a few laughs, but that’s all.

                                  There are obviously controversial groups (John Birch Society, KKK, CP-USA), but simply joining or volunteering for MADD won’t do any harm; if you were referred to it as part of a DUI plea, that’s a different story.

                                  Now if you truly want to be Machiavellian, volunteer with the Democratic Party (you can do the Republicans too if you like). Once they know you as dedicated organizer/activist, your local congressman or US Senator (assuming they are from the same party) is likely to give more assistance if you have problems with CIS. Another example is the ACLU. If you’re an active participant, you may get legal advice (often free) from attorney’s specializing in these cases.

                                  Finally, to those who were rejected, I hope you sought competent legal advice.

                                  Rgds,
                                  sadiq

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by AmericanWannabe
                                    Because your style is vey much like that of GCLOCKUP

                                    I have some thoughts about how to show you
                                    have good moral charcaters. My suggestions are

                                    (1) Join some non-controversial charity organization
                                    and list them on the N400 form which ask
                                    you to list the organization you joined anyway
                                    (2) Make donations to charity and list them on your
                                    Chedule A of tax return
                                    (3) Get a organ donator sticker on your DL
                                    and show your DL together with your GC
                                    at the time of interview (or submit
                                    a copy of yoru DL with your application pakage anyway)

                                    It is too bad we can not get an organ donor sticker
                                    on our GC
                                    (4) Sit on the bank of a river and wait for someone
                                    to fall in and then scopp him out and become
                                    a hero.

                                    smart man!
                                    acutally you have pretty good points, i might consider following your recommendations.
                                    Thanks bunch!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by DodoDi
                                      With all due respect to waapples, this story has too many inconsistencies to be believable.
                                      (1) You said you are waiting for your turn and will re-apply, and in another post said that your case is still in court.
                                      my case goes like this;
                                      it has been already determined that my US citizenship was denied. but i'm in the part of the class-action lawsuit and the court will decide whether they will give me a chance to prove that i'm a person with good moral character. this way, i don't have to go through paying for another interview fees and what not.
                                      but in any case, who knows how long it would take that to go through, meaning that when the year 2007 comes first than the court decision, i can re-apply w/o waiting for the court decision.
                                      you were basically confused because you were trying to link those two different issues together.


                                      Originally posted by DodoDi
                                      (2) In one post you advised applicants to have an attorney represent them so they wouldn't face your dilemma, and in another you said the situation confused your lawyer.
                                      because he has never seen a case like mine. i've recommeded to have a lawyer represents you all, because none of us will have exact same dillema.


                                      Originally posted by DodoDi
                                      (3) I don't buy that an INS officer will accuse you of something that is not true or jump to conclusions based on non-factual evidence. And I don't think that a naturalization case can simply be rejected because of the mood of the officer or some assumptions s/he's made. The case has to be reviewed by a higher-ranking officer, who'll check the facts, before a rejection letter is sent.

                                      My $0.02.
                                      Dodi
                                      Dodi, where do you live? wish i can stop by your house or meet up somewhere to show all the documentations i have on my hands.
                                      i've been telling you guys nothing but truth.
                                      Last edited by waapples; 9th December 2004, 03:21 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by sadiq
                                        Now if you truly want to be Machiavellian, volunteer with the Democratic Party (you can do the Republicans too if you like). Once they know you as dedicated organizer/activist, your local congressman or US Senator (assuming they are from the same party) is likely to give more assistance if you have problems with CIS. Another example is the ACLU. If you’re an active participant, you may get legal advice (often free) from attorney’s specializing in these cases.
                                        You have to be sure that it is legal for a noncitizen
                                        to be an organizer or activist for American political parties.
                                        2009/03/20 - N-400 Filed
                                        2009/03/25 - RD and PD
                                        2009/03/30 - Notice of Action Date
                                        2009/03/31 - Check Cashed
                                        2009/04/04 - NOA received
                                        2009/04/06 - FP letter received
                                        2009/04/28 - FP appointment done
                                        2009/05/11 - Interview NOA
                                        2009/06/01 - Got Case Review File (yellow letter)
                                        2009/06/15 - Interview Descheduled
                                        2009/07/08 - Interview (10:20AM)

                                        Comment

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